I really hope factorio plans on adding like a power update

[Z0MBE]

Experimenting with alternating vs directing current seems like something that should definitily be in this game - I think this because of this mod I used called "the transformer mod" I don't know if it's updated to 1.0 but it's an extremely necessary mod to have -

[jagholin]

just why? as a mod - sure, but nothing like this is needed honestly

[RiO]

AC would imho be interesting as a gameplay gimmick for one thing: pulses. i.e. clock signals.

But we can already build those today using a decider combinator that loops its output back to its input, making game ticks - i.e. UPS - itself the clock counter.

[jagholin]

AC? the game doesn't have a concept of current or voltage, it doesn't make sense to talk about alternating/direct current

wth are you even talking about

[b0nehead]

Would be cool if you had to step down high voltage with transformers and then to machines. If that's what this mod does.


Not sure about the AC DC thing and how this applies to the game. The machines have no specific input and even if they did it would be placebo concept at best with just more modules to place.

[AlexMBrennan]

The mod helps to control the flow of electricity (e.g. you put your accumulators and solar panels behind a one-way transformer to stop steam engines from charging the accumulators at night) - nice to have I guess but largely redundant since 0.13 added the ability to connect accumulators to the circuit network.

[knighttemplar1960]

To be honest its probably all ready in the game just not separated out in a way that you could manipulate it. Solar panels and accumulators produce DC and steam engines and steam turbines produce rotary motion which moves a coil through a set of magnets this produces alternating current. The trick is maintaining a set speed so your power remains constant. Its very easy to convert AC into DC by using a full wave rectifier and adding a capacitor as a filter to eliminate the ripple. Its more complicated to convert DC current into AC.

Both types of current are required to make devices that include transistors function. Diodes only let current pass in one direction. This make the circuit look like an open half the time. A capacitor is like a small battery that charges and then discharges. The two plates are separated by a non or semi-conductive material on the top half of the cycle the capacitor charges and on the bottom half it discharges and then it reverses direction for the bottom half of the cycle. This makes it look like a completed circuit to AC but since the capacitor charges and then stops with DC it looks like an open circuit. How those combinations are used together is what makes our current electronics function.

[Nyquistic]

It would be interesting to add power flow or load flow study[en.wikipedia.org] to the game. But for DC only as it is 10x simpler as it is for AC.

i don't see any problem using DC only in the game as all AC generators could have build in DC converters so whole network might already be a DC.
What I see problem is that tiny power lines can easily transport 3 GW of power. It should have some limitations (overload of certain weak power connections, burning it). So game would encourage people to optimize power delivery across the factory.

Each power line should have resistance parameter, and bigger power line = lower resistance. That would also require use of concept of voltage and current in the game. With lower voltage (voltage drop is made in long distance poor power line connection) devices would work slower.

[Z0MBE]

Originally posted by Nyquistic:

It would be interesting to add power flow or load flow study[en.wikipedia.org] to the game. But for DC only as it is 10x simpler as it is for AC.

i don't see any problem using DC only in the game as all AC generators could have build in DC converters so whole network might already be a DC.
What I see problem is that tiny power lines can easily transport 3 GW of power. It should have some limitations (overload of certain weak power connections, burning it). So game would encourage people to optimize power delivery across the factory.

Each power line should have resistance parameter, and bigger power line = lower resistance. That would also require use of concept of voltage and current in the game. With lower voltage (voltage drop is made in long distance poor power line connection) devices would work slower.

That's a cool idea honestly.

[Sebine]

A weather update to go with it.

Harness the power of the storm.


or

you know

get turned into a crispy critter

[lethminite]

Originally posted by Sebine:

A weather update to go with it.

Harness the power of the storm.
or you know get turned into a crispy critter

Lightning actually has bugger all power compared to a power plant, and is a fairly trivial issue to mitigate in power networks.

On to the OPs question, I know this thread is over a year old, but I also have to ask what is the point of having AC vs DC? What type of design decisions are people thinking this would require you to think about?
Just having different voltage levels, with transmission wires having resistance could be cool, to stop you being able to transmit power half way across the world out of a single power plant, particularly through a single connection. But given that the main limit on this game is computing power, I can't see people wanting to waste calculations on it as a system. Just having fluids involved in nuclear power seems to prevent it from being used for mega-basing.

I can't imagine that there is going to be much broad appeal having to chose between 3 phase motors, or DC motors, or having to deal with frequency stability or your large DC network causing electrolysis issues (having the DC power corrode the water/oil pipes etc).
So what is it that people would want from a system like this?

I do think being have to electrify your trains would be good, though at the same time, it would just be trivialising refuelling in exchange for some iron and copper to set up overheads, so i can see why you can't.

Given how unrealistic power already is in this game (water pumps and conveyor belts not needing power etc), I can't really see how having a more accurate power simulation would help the game. Very much the type of feature that would need to be done in Mods, if at all.

[Nyquistic]

Originally posted by Nyquistic:

It would be interesting to add power flow or load flow study[en.wikipedia.org] to the game. But for DC only as it is 10x simpler as it is for AC.

I believe adding only DC power flow calculation would make game more interesting . As of as it is now its not really important what power lines player uses.
On the other hand its really important for length pipes (problem is the same).

[GreenBeanN1]

It would require an underground electric layer/network. Otherwise it will be impossible to build due to the lack of space.

[Nyquistic]

Well with parameter resistance to each power line section, developers can easily control amount of power lines needed to supply 1 GW of power. Therefore underground cabling although welcome addition would not be required.

[Z0MBE]

To the points about what it would add, I mean I could speculate on alot. I think power should be a larger part of the game and be more intricate and have more space for efficiency mining as a game mechanic. Say if you added dc and ac ** or just dc and let players discover ac (main differences being range of transmission or variety of load). also the graph would look awesome if it were a sin wave imo, you can kinda say that as it is Vanilla it's just infinite dc power range. Circuit conditions can play a big role in ac and other electric applications and also there can be additions to circuit networks involving like transformers resistances or anodes, where power is inputted and outputted. The power switch but with way more steps.

Furthermore I think it would be cool if you could generate power and that power could be used as it's own beacon source, maybe there could be other mechanics around that.

[Dunhill]

And what would you achieve by doing that? Transformers in transmission and distribution lines exist for efficiency and safety reasons. Factorio doesn't even have voltage or current, let alone power losses on power lines. If it did, there'd be no reason to transform the voltage to more than two levels as there would be no major safety concerns as there would be in real life if you were to run a 220KV line literally a few feet away at best from your head. They'd need to add tons of new power poles and transmission towers with different voltage ratings (and current ratings if you want to be realistic)...

What would you even do with DC? DC doesn't go into transformers. AC voltage gets transformed into a desired value and is then rectified into DC to power electronics. It's more than realistic enough for me to assume that transformation and rectification are done within assemblers themselves to power their electronics. There's really no point of having DC in Factorio. Sure, there are some transmission lines that use it, but those are way longer than you'd have them in Factorio. Sure, solar panels and accumulators output DC, but come on...

Do you want DC for Factorio electronics? Factorio's circuit network and combinators already has everything you could ask for. You can already emulate pretty much every component, and so more easily and with a significantly higher degree of control. The components that aren't so easy to emulate don't have much use in Factorio anyway, since AC and DC aren't a thing and neither is their filtering, and you don't have to make sure your circuit doesn't fry itself.

AC and DC systems + transformers, rectifiers and inverters, along with safety concerns as a result of high voltage and lots of new power poles and transmission towers... All for a FINISHED GAME. There's no reason for it to happen and definitely no way it'll happen.