Science Packs priority : black or blue ?

[Jonathan]

So... first of all : I usually work mostly on my own, building my strategy, ignoring most mainstream strategies. So don't try to picture my base : it's a huge chaotic marvel. (And I love it ! <3)

Anyway : I played a full playthrough in 0.13, 0.14 and 0.16.
Now going for 1.0. (yay !)

But ever since black and blue sc.packs have been set to be "on the same tier", I've been wondering what do people generally do first ?

I have a tendency to "build for big" so both of them are a lot of work(to sustain 20-ish sc.centers). I can't imagine doing both at the same time.

But in 0.16, I did blue first and I remember thinking that the black one were a pain in the bottom.

But now, I just went for black first and bitters are beginning to be quite powerfull. Not having drones yet to repair is troublesome. And not having laser turrets for quick-and-easy new-base deployment is also quite troublesome.

Plus, I lost extra time building armor-piercing ammo factories and automated deliveries to all turrets around the map, mostly delivered by train... (where as I would have used a lot of lasers if I did blue first)


So.......... to me, it kind of feel like doing black first was not a good choice.


Looking for opinions on the subject.



Thanks !

[Dakota]

Black's a bit easier to setup since no oil is required for it's process. It seems like you just go with black science packs if you need to setup more defense or make your way through some nests to get to oil deposits. It even has you make AP mags, grenades, and walls to create it, all the stuff you'd need for early game defense. In comparison blue science packs focus more on setting up the industry side of things to start expanding more.

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Do you have a biter problem or expect one in the near future?
Military science first.

Do you have easy access to oil, and iron is not as plentiful as you want?
Chemical Science first.

Do you not have easy access to oil, or have so much iron you are swimming in it?
Military science first.

Answer these questions in order. This is how I decide. Of course if you turn off biters, there's no reason to ever get military science, except for grenade tech and armor techs. Personally I like having biters around.

[Modran]

Messaggio originale di CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate:

Do you have easy access to oil, and iron is not as plentiful as you want?
Chemical Science first.

Do you not have easy access to oil, or have so much iron you are swimming in it?
Military science first.

But blue science needs much more iron than grey ...

[Jonathan]

Did not play much yesterday.

But the little I did put my mind to rest.

The attack speed + attack power boosts that I could research for turrets, combined with fire turrets, stabilized my defense for now.

And with flame turrets, I was easilly able to take control of 2 oil fields (near each others). They are far away, but I got a train there + electricity. Connected a few pumps directly into flame throwers (for now) and used those to brute-force through the 3 nearby biter bases. Oil secured. I'll bring the crude oil back to my base by train and work with that. Blue sc. packs won't be too much of a poblem, I think. Granted that I first reinforce all my defenses with fire turrets.




Love this game.




So much.




<3

[Drizzt]

Messaggio originale di Jonathan:

Love this game.

So much.

<3

yes - it is the best - and i shall give an example of how so from my personal experience today

so i was doing a Lazy B*stard playthrough, an achievement i have yet to complete, but which has been my preferred method of play ever since hearing of it some time not too long ago (maybe a year maximum - i was watching a 100% speedrun and that was the first i heard of it, although i had played the game for years, but had avoided videos for a long time to avoid spoilers so i could make my own discoveries - which for me is part of the fun)

and so i always play that way now, with only 111 hand crafts allowed - but i had taken a break from the game in the 6 months or so running up to 1.0, and my most recent playthough i restarted maybe 12 hours in because i was unhappy with my base (is kind of a habit)

anyway - i'm about 27 hours in, all blue science researched, about to optimise my fluid processing, get some batteries for some accumulators (still using boiler backup for nighttime - but got so many solar panels that there is a very short window where they are not supplying), and then start the big push for the finish line, since i have a big base, 6M iron ore on tap and a big copper patch within my cleared radius for when my initial patch runs dry and a load of fluids tanked and some good rail lines running - so basically i'm feeling good to get yellow and purple up and running and get that silo built.

but then i notice my radar outposts are starting to get damaged more frequently, and a turret or two are getting destroyed - i have cleared a lot around my base and so the evolution factor is higher than just my pollution would merit - with frequent attacks from large groups of medium and large biters and spitters, which is fine for my perimeter, but at the small outposts the spitters are really causing a problem (not sure whether they had got large yet, but the mediums are still a pain with their range) - so anyway, i have never used flame turrets (using a full belt fed perimeter of regular turrets, and fully loading 3 or 4 to protect my radar outposts), but i see they have a much longer range and i have tanks of heavy oil so i think i shall give it a go.

so i get to my northern radar outpost and start deconstructing it (like a fool), and immediately there is an attack, and i have no turrets built or a wall - but i've got AP rounds and the modular armour so i think "i don't need to run, i can take on this 20 or so strong group" - and so within seconds i'm dead - first death in 27 hours (didn't even have time to throw a grenade)

and i play with just one life

so that's it - game over

and i immediately started up another playthrough and rushed through the first 110 crafts in record time, disabled the crafting keys and i'm back at it - a new factory to build and i'm loving it - i'm excited to design my base better - to think about my defence strategy better - to progress quicker and think bigger

at no point was i disappointed to have to start again - because i love to play this game - and when i eventually get this achievement, i may finally move from vanilla to mods - probably space exploration and krastorio 2, and so will end my 1700 hours of vanilla and begin several more thousand hours with mods i expect

so yes - can't agree more - but thought i would use a few thousand more words to do so ;-)

Factorio Forever! :-)