Any tips for reducing lag with overseas friends?

[Mist of Majora]

So I have a few friends overseas that I enjoy gaming with, and one in particular only has issues with lag when playing Factorio (all other games are relatively perfect).

Any suggestions on in-game options to reduce the latency a bit?

P.S. I apologize if this was supposed to go in Technical help

[Nailfoot]

The fastest computer should be the one hosting (kinda obvious), but the way this game works the host has to send out the entire map and all entity updates at the same time.

If the client PC or internet speed is too slow you may simply not be able to do it.

[Malli]

Originally posted by Nailfoot:

The fastest computer should be the one hosting (kinda obvious), but the way this game works the host has to send out the entire map and all entity updates at the same time.

If the client PC or internet speed is too slow you may simply not be able to do it.

And ontop of that, The bigger the factory the more lag for everyone. It may seem smooth at the beginning but will get really bad late game. (unless host and clients have really good internet.)

[Mist of Majora]

Thank you everyone for the tips so far!

That being said, I'm especially curious if anyone knows of any tweaks for this specific game to reduce lag. Our connection with other games is fine - it's just this game, for the entire game (and we both have good connections)

[PunCrathod]

Originally posted by Leani & Red:

Originally posted by Nailfoot:

The fastest computer should be the one hosting (kinda obvious), but the way this game works the host has to send out the entire map and all entity updates at the same time.

If the client PC or internet speed is too slow you may simply not be able to do it.

And ontop of that, The bigger the factory the more lag for everyone. It may seem smooth at the beginning but will get really bad late game. (unless host and clients have really good internet.)

You two don't know what you are talking about. Factorio does not send entity updates at all. And a bigger map does not take more bandwidth(other than during joining when the save is transferred). Factorio uses lockstep simulation. That means that each client simulates their own complete game and only the user input is sent over the network.

[Fel]

Originally posted by PunCrathod:

You two don't know what you are talking about. Factorio does not send entity updates at all. And a bigger map does not take more bandwidth(other than during joining when the save is transferred). Factorio uses lockstep simulation. That means that each client simulates their own complete game and only the user input is sent over the network.

The whole lockstep works fine if the server and all of the clients are capable of maintaining the same UPS.
As soon as there are differences, especially if a client starts to fall behind, it will need "catching up" (which does mean more traffic) and potentially downloading the map again.

[AtheroS]

If the lag you mean is when you pickup item from the belt and you have a 1-2sec delay before seeing you picked it up. It is totally normal

[Grumpy Old Gamer]

Originally posted by Mist of Majora:

So I have a few friends overseas that I enjoy gaming with, and one in particular only has issues with lag when playing Factorio (all other games are relatively perfect).

Any suggestions on in-game options to reduce the latency a bit?

P.S. I apologize if this was supposed to go in Technical help

No logistic bots (<1000), and try to keep the combat to a minimum. These seem to be the major sources of network lag. Logisitic bots generate a lot of network traffic (bot speed makes it worse, not better). Increasing bot cargo capacity can help a little, simply because it generates fewer bot deliveries. its actualyl the deliveries per second that cause the issue, not the bots themselves per se. Combat causes rubber banding because latency hiding is disabled for combat.

[Mist of Majora]

Again, thank you everyone for their suggestions - this community is awesome :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like everyone so far believes that the only mechanism to deal with lag has to do with the in-game content rather than somehow tweaking the internet settings of the game?

Originally posted by AtheroS:

If the lag you mean is when you pickup item from the belt and you have a 1-2sec delay before seeing you picked it up. It is totally normal

I mean across the board, from the start of the game, and it's at LEAST 5-6 seconds of delay. Actually, if I'm being more accurate, it seems like it's roughly 2 seconds delay on movement, and at LEAST 6 seconds upon interacting with anything from the world (read: doing anything that changes the map like picking up from belts & chest, placing objects; oddly enough riding in vehicles has a delay but to a much lesser degree)

[Killcreek2]

Originally posted by Mist of Majora:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like everyone so far believes that the only mechanism to deal with lag has to do with the in-game content rather than somehow tweaking the internet settings of the game?

Well, some of them are completely wrong ~ in-game stuff will have NO effect on your lag (ping times) ~ due to the game using lock-step simulation, so ONLY player inputs are sent (as PunCrathod explained above).
(The only time ingame stuff will have an effect, is when the PC cannnot handle the size of the factory / has the graphics options set too high ~ this slows the simulation for ALL players in that game, resulting in UPS drops rather than laggy inputs)

Originally posted by Mist of Majora:

Originally posted by AtheroS:

If the lag you mean is when you pickup item from the belt and you have a 1-2sec delay before seeing you picked it up. It is totally normal

I mean across the board, from the start of the game, and it's at LEAST 5-6 seconds of delay. Actually, if I'm being more accurate, it seems like it's roughly 2 seconds delay on movement, and at LEAST 6 seconds upon interacting with anything from the world (read: doing anything that changes the map like picking up from belts & chest, placing objects; oddly enough riding in vehicles has a delay but to a much lesser degree)

If this happens in Multiplayer only, then it is nothing the game can fix ~ the problem is likely the internet connection or distance between the players, &/or if one is using wi-fi router or rural internet connection (wi-fi tends to add some delay to everything internet-based, whereas rural connections often have more steps just to get to a main hub resulting in higher ping).

But if this happens in single player too, then you should adjust game / graphic settings. [Note that all players will experience a slowdown eventually at some point, as the factory grows.)


edit ~ formatting

[Ancient]

Originally posted by Mist of Majora:

Again, thank you everyone for their suggestions - this community is awesome :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like everyone so far believes that the only mechanism to deal with lag has to do with the in-game content rather than somehow tweaking the internet settings of the game?

That's because there are no meaningful settings to tweak. The netcode just works the way it works, so there's nothing to configure.

It pretty much comes down to having the person with most powerful PC (CPU specifically) and internet possible hosting the game, and then self-limiting gameplay factors that can cause more UPS lag (huge sprawling bases, bot networks, combat, etc. all cost more UPS and can cause more bandwidth to be needed in order for each player to remain sync'd). Essentially, more bandwidth means more packets and more packets means a greater chance for dropped packets and a possible desync between the server and client.

It sounds more like you guys are just suffering from latency and/or packet loss more than anything, which you can only improve by physically putting less distance between your networks (one of you moves closer to the other) or possibly using a more reliable provider. I say that because if it were UPS related, it would be much less severe at the start of a map and slowly degrade as your map becomes more complex. It sounds like there's either a ton of latency between you, lots of packets between you are being dropped, or both.

One basic network troubleshooting step you can both do is go here: http://whatismyip.com and then tell each other what your public IPv4 IPs are. Then, (if you're both using Windows) you can open up a CMD prompt and type

tracert -d -h 60 <the other person's IP>
Example: tracert -d -h 60 123.123.123.123

That will analyze the internet hops between you and at least tell you if there is a slow or non-responsive hop along the routes to and from each of your WAN IPs. This will send three packets to each hop along the one-way route from one IP to the other. If either of you are seeing hops returning RTTs (Return Trip Time) of 100ms or more (that is a slow hop) or * (meaning you didn't get the packet back = possible packet loss) or a return of "Request timed out." instead of an IP (that is a non-responsive hop).

It may very well not be an issue at either of your ISPs, but some router much further along in between you that is causing a slow or unreliable connection between you. That's not something the game or you or your ISP can fix, it's just a matter of the connection between you being unreliable. It's not uncommon and is a good reason why gaming servers are usually partitioned into regions like NA, SA, EU, AS/SEA, and OC: the connections within those regions are usually fairly reliable, while connections between different regions are more commonly not.

[impetus_maximus]

if anyone is using WiFi, get them to go wired instead. WiFi is the leading cause (i found) that causes rubber banding etc in many games. it doesn't matter how 'fast' you can download on WiFi. WiFi and gaming don't mix.

if everyone is wired, it's probably just latency and packet loss as others have stated. find friends in your own region/time zone to play with. stick with more casual games to play with your global friends. chess etc.

[Mist of Majora]

Yikes... ok that sucks, but thank you very much for explaining it so clearly for me! I really appreciate all the feedback!!!

[PunCrathod]

Originally posted by Shadow Raider:

[
No logistic bots (<1000), and try to keep the combat to a minimum. These seem to be the major sources of network lag. Logisitic bots generate a lot of network traffic (bot speed makes it worse, not better). Increasing bot cargo capacity can help a little, simply because it generates fewer bot deliveries. its actualyl the deliveries per second that cause the issue, not the bots themselves per se. Combat causes rubber banding because latency hiding is disabled for combat.

Bots do not generate network traffic. Also latency hiding is not disabled for combat. The game does not have a separate combat state and does not alter how it works based on whether there is combat happening or not. What you are probably seeing is the effect of ups drop from increased amount of pathfinding that happens when you trigger biters.

Originally posted by Fel:

The whole lockstep works fine if the server and all of the clients are capable of maintaining the same UPS.
As soon as there are differences, especially if a client starts to fall behind, it will need "catching up" (which does mean more traffic) and potentially downloading the map again.

At that point you don't have to care about the increased network traffic as the game is practically unplayable anyway. Besides even if you are implying that lockstep simulation is bad and should not be used it won't change the fact that factorio does use lockstep simulation. And it uses it for a good reason. The amount of stuff in a rocket launch capable factory would be impossible to handle on most peoples internet connections if it did not use lockstep.

[Fel]

I am absolutely not saying lockstep is bad by any mean, it allows to severely limit network traffic and doesn't put as much strain on the server, so it is what makes the multiplayer playable even without dedicated servers.
All I am saying is that it is not a mystical thing that will magically throttle things to the slowest machine currently playing like some posts tend to imply.

And when you do notice that 1+ players are having problems keeping up when playing with friends, there is always the option of forcing the host/server to have a lower UPS.