New toolbar get up sucks

[Zilas]

Surely i can't be the only one that dislike this new toolbar get up?

Yes it used to get messy in earlier build's but it was way quiker than haveing to manually take one item from the inventory then click where you want it in toolbar and then take it back into inventory again :P

I might be an old fart but atleast let there be an option to turn that system off (If there aleready is please let me know, i havent found it if so).

Right now im not useing the toolbar at all because it's so frustrating and everytime i use something now id rather open the inventory every single time xD

Sincerely Zilas <3

[OX4]

I'd like to know how to get rid of the quickbar shortcuts. Right now I have coal in 5 different slots for some reason, all pointing to the same stack.

[Zilas]

Originally posted by OX4:

I'd like to know how to get rid of the quickbar shortcuts. Right now I have coal in 5 different slots for some reason, all pointing to the same stack.

Yes haven't figured out that aswell....

[piccolo255]

Originally posted by OX4:

I'd like to know how to get rid of the quickbar shortcuts. Right now I have coal in 5 different slots for some reason, all pointing to the same stack.

Middle-click.

BTW, there is now only one quickbar "stack" for each item type, so even if you assign different inventory stacks to different quickbar slots, they'd all be pointing to the same thing anyway.

FWIW, I think the new quickbar is overall an improvement over the old one. There are some possible annoyances, but not sure how much of that is just not being used to it. I'd expect the change to be difficult as I've used the last one 1000+ hours, but considering that I'm already getting used to the new one, it can't be all that bad.

[𝓝𝓪𝓬𝓱𝓸𝓫𝓸𝓲]

Middle click to remove the favorites should be more obvious OR allow us to use either middle click or right mouse button.

The new quick bar is odd, but i personally think it's better than the old one.

[Nailfoot]

Perhaps an option that when you click something to the toolbar, it sets the shortcut AND leaves your hand?

Then, if you want to use that item you simply click the shortcut again. This would in effect be exactly like 0.16.

[GunRunner89X]

I think the new toolbar is amazing. Might be a small bit tedious at first, setting items into each slot. But after that's done, you no longer have to go about messing with putting items into the hotbar. If I want belts -> Shift 1. Inserters -> Shift 2. Train Stuff -> Shift 5. However you like to organise it. It's brilliant.

[still__alive]

I like it quite a bit too. Once I settle on what kind of "loadouts" I want each bar to have, I imagine the new hotbar would allow you to almost never open the inventory and use all hotkeys instead of mouse clicks to manage your items.

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Originally posted by OX4:

I'd like to know how to get rid of the quickbar shortcuts. Right now I have coal in 5 different slots for some reason, all pointing to the same stack.

I'm so glad I've been waiting for my mods to update before I really set into it (plus it's the work week so no time anyways) I get to read all of the pitfalls of the system so I can avoid them myself.

[Morphic]

Originally posted by Gun-Runner89X:

I think the new toolbar is amazing. Might be a small bit tedious at first, setting items into each slot. But after that's done, you no longer have to go about messing with putting items into the hotbar. If I want belts -> Shift 1. Inserters -> Shift 2. Train Stuff -> Shift 5. However you like to organise it. It's brilliant.

Same. Nearly freaked out when I couldn't figure out how to delete shortcuts but once I paid a visit to the Controls option page I started to really dig it. So much nicer and easier to set stuff up and build/fight!

[vts6482]

Like the OP, I really hate the new toolbar. It adds so many extra steps to getting anything done.

Here's what happens after picking up/crafting something new:
0.16 -
* Usually ends up in your toolbar (otherwise some quick shift-clicking to clear up the toolbar and bring in what you currently need)
* Press the corresponding shortcut key
* Build (and its likely out of your toolbar, ready for some other new thing to take its place)

0.17 -
* Not accessible in your toolbar unless you've pre-configured it (are we meant to preconfigure all 100 slots when starting the game???)

So Either:
* Open up the inventory
* Find the new item amongst the clutter
* Bring your cursor over it to select it
* Build

Or:
* Bring the cursor to one of the tooblar slots and click
* Find the item from the menu to configure the slot
* Press the corresponding shortcut key
* Build
* Bring the cursor back to the toolbar slot and middle click (because you're not gonna build more offshore pumps for another hour!)

I've given the new toolbar a chance for a few hours, but I'm only using it for the few things I'd usually set a filter for (e.g. belts, undergrounds and splitters). Everything else is built from the inventory screen, which is so much slower than 0.16 due to the extra mouse movement necessary. Am i missing something???

[piccolo255]

Originally posted by vts6482:

Like the OP, I really hate the new toolbar. It adds so many extra steps to getting anything done.

The problem is that you've picked for comparison the absolutely most efficient scenario for 0.16 :) Let me present you with a couple of alternatives:

1) Crafting or taking from a chest a stack of assemblers
* Is it on a toolbar? Check all slots.
* No, the slots were full.
* OK, let's dig into the inventory.
* Now find what slot to put it in. Which ones do I have locked, which ones are "open"?
* Let's place it instead of, hmm, underground pipes.
* Oh wait, I needed pipes for my current build.
* I don't need power poles right now, but if I unlock them to place something else, it'll be annoying later.
* Ugh, I'll just build from the inventory.

2) Restocking a concrete stack, storing the extra back into the chest
* Is it on a toolbar?
* Oh wait, concrete doesn't get automatically placed there, it goes directly into the inventory.
* But I already have a half-full stack of concrete on the toolbar!
* No matter, it goes into the inventory.
* Sigh.
* Pick up the concrete stack from the toolbar.
* Press Q to cancel it. That refills the stack.
* Now I can return the extra back into the chest. Whee.

And so on, and so forth. Stacks get placed in a toolbar slot if there is an empty one, but only if you don't already have them or their filter in another slot, but not for intermediate items, only buildings, oh but not floor items, and what if all slots have filters set, and... Personally, it works for me like you describe it for maybe the first couple of hours on a new map. The next 150+ hours are more like I described above :)

Main problem is. there's so many rules and exceptions. And don't forget about the constant rearranging and setting and removing filters, you never know where an item is or will be unless you set a filter for every slot, and then we just have a more clunky implementation of 0.17's quickbar, where you have to change assignments every half hour instead of picking a separate prepared quickbar (combat, oil, mining, assemblers, belts, power...).

The main reasoning behind the 0.17 quickbar is "consistency". It should work consistently for all items, anything else is very confusing, especially for new players. I'm not saying it doesn't have its rough spots, but overall it's a major improvement.

Finally, as Skev said, we'll need to change our usage patterns. Using the 0.17 quickbar like we did the 0.16 toolbar is bound to be inefficient :)

If you want to know more about the dev's reasoning (I don't like change either, but they've certainly convinced me!), see these two FFFs:
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-191
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-278

[Grem™]

Just someone does not know how to use this panel, I really like the new panel. Add a tick, but do not remove the panel from the game.

[pat]

Love the new toolbar. In the previous version, I hated how things usually landed in your toolbar when you use them. I don't want that! I place radar stations down rarely, so I don't want them taking up a valuable toolbar slot, but that's where they're going. I'll run out of something important, go to my mall to pick up another stack of them, but the spot they previously held in my toolbar is now taken by something else.

The new toolbar is great.

[vts6482]

Originally posted by piccolo255:

Originally posted by vts6482:

Like the OP, I really hate the new toolbar. It adds so many extra steps to getting anything done.

The problem is that you've picked for comparison the absolutely most efficient scenario for 0.16 :) Let me present you with a couple of alternatives:

1) Crafting or taking from a chest a stack of assemblers
* Is it on a toolbar? Check all slots.
* No, the slots were full.
* OK, let's dig into the inventory.
* Now find what slot to put it in. Which ones do I have locked, which ones are "open"?
* Let's place it instead of, hmm, underground pipes.
* Oh wait, I needed pipes for my current build.
* I don't need power poles right now, but if I unlock them to place something else, it'll be annoying later.
* Ugh, I'll just build from the inventory.

2) Restocking a concrete stack, storing the extra back into the chest
* Is it on a toolbar?
* Oh wait, concrete doesn't get automatically placed there, it goes directly into the inventory.
* But I already have a half-full stack of concrete on the toolbar!
* No matter, it goes into the inventory.
* Sigh.
* Pick up the concrete stack from the toolbar.
* Press Q to cancel it. That refills the stack.
* Now I can return the extra back into the chest. Whee.

And so on, and so forth. Stacks get placed in a toolbar slot if there is an empty one, but only if you don't already have them or their filter in another slot, but not for intermediate items, only buildings, oh but not floor items, and what if all slots have filters set, and... Personally, it works for me like you describe it for maybe the first couple of hours on a new map. The next 150+ hours are more like I described above :)

Main problem is. there's so many rules and exceptions. And don't forget about the constant rearranging and setting and removing filters, you never know where an item is or will be unless you set a filter for every slot, and then we just have a more clunky implementation of 0.17's quickbar, where you have to change assignments every half hour instead of picking a separate prepared quickbar (combat, oil, mining, assemblers, belts, power...).

The main reasoning behind the 0.17 quickbar is "consistency". It should work consistently for all items, anything else is very confusing, especially for new players. I'm not saying it doesn't have its rough spots, but overall it's a major improvement.

Finally, as Skev said, we'll need to change our usage patterns. Using the 0.17 quickbar like we did the 0.16 toolbar is bound to be inefficient :)

If you want to know more about the dev's reasoning (I don't like change either, but they've certainly convinced me!), see these two FFFs:
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-191
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-278

Yes I only listed one scenario, but could have written about other ways in which toolbar management is a lot quicker in 0.16 (i.e. clearing the toolbar and setting it from your inventory is just a series of shift-clicks where mouse movement is minimal). For me it's all about getting things done quickly without moving the mouse around, and from that standpoint 0.17's toolbar is objectively worse as you're either moving the mouse around configuring it or mousing over the inventory because crafted items don't show on the toolbar.

Hmm, I'm not really familiar with the problems you're describing in process 1 and 2 there - If you've decided you need assemblers, why are you looking for them in your inventory? You're spot on with the "first couple of hours on a new map" being the context I think. Beyond that once you get robotics, the toolbar becomes a place for blueprints anyway and these inventory management scenarios no longer apply in my experience. Just set a request for a stack or two of assemblers so you avoid all of the problems your scenario suggests.

As for the dev statements... it's their game and of course they can do what they want, but I just don't get the rationale of statements like: "No more random items appearing in the quickbar as you craft them" - what "random items"? And I WANT the things I chose to craft to appear there so I can quickly place them without extra mouse use! Otherwise I COULD have used filters to keep the toolbar clean/tightly-managed - no longer a choice we have.

[piccolo255]

Originally posted by vts6482:

Hmm, I'm not really familiar with the problems you're describing in process 1 and 2 there - If you've decided you need assemblers, why are you looking for them in your inventory?

Because, as the first line said, I just took them from a chest or crafted them by hand. It's an alternative flow for the 0.16 scenario you presented, but for a case when there is no empty slots in the toolbar... which for me is almost always, so the described pattern is not a hypothetical, it's exactly what happened to me all the damn time :)

Originally posted by vts6482:

Just set a request for a stack or two of assemblers so you avoid all of the problems your scenario suggests.

Nope, it's the exact same scenario. Where did the bots put the assemblers? Depends on the exact state of the toolbar ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Originally posted by vts6482:

As for the dev statements... it's their game and of course they can do what they want, but I just don't get the rationale of statements like: "No more random items appearing in the quickbar as you craft them" - what "random items"? And I WANT the things I chose to craft to appear there so I can quickly place them without extra mouse use! Otherwise I COULD have used filters to keep the toolbar clean/tightly-managed - no longer a choice we have.

There was much confusion from new players. It remains to be seen if the new quickbar is more intuitive for them. So far, "middle click to clear" seems to be the only major problem :)

"Random items" means just that, random, arbitrary items. Maybe you wanted it in the slot after crafting, maybe you didn't, it didn't matter - the game would put it there. Unless it was a type of item that's not put there. Then it would end up directly in the inventory. Or if the toolbar was full. Then it would also end up in the inventory. Unless it had a filter set up in a slot. The it would end up in the filtered slot in the toolbar. Unless it was a floor item. Then it would end up in the inventory, regardless of any filters. Basically, it was chaos, and you needed some experience to start figuring out what goes where and under what conditions, and always keep the state of the toolbar under active consideration.

With the new system, we may quibble about efficiency in specific scenarios, but you have to admit it's at least consistent: items you take or craft get put into the inventory, and the quickbar is a list of shortcuts you set yourself. No ifs, no buts, no exceptions. This is --usually-- a good thing :)