Electric furnace tip

[Colonel Sanders Lite]

I think most people, myself included, probably see that electric furnaces are an upgrade, don't question it, and just go for them asap. Just on a whim, I was looking at some numbers though.


When you're still producing power via boilers+steam engines, electric furnaces are terrible. No, really. Just complete junk.

The big reason that electric furnaces are so bad?

Steel furnaces convert the fuel into energy at 100% efficiency, while boilers convert fuel into energy at 50% efficiency. They both require the same amount of energy, so electric furnaces burn twice the fuel to do the same job that a steel furnace does.

Not only do they burn more fuel, they don't produce any faster and take up more room.



Even into the mid to early late game when you're on solar/nuclear power, changing from steel furnaces to electric furnaces is only situationally useful. They do the same work at the same energy cost with a bigger footprint. Not needing a fueling system isn't really an advantage, as such a system should already be in place for existing smelting columns. The only really big advantage they have in this phase of the game is a reduction in pollution. IMHO, that's pretty meh. For what it's worth, I think I would only go out of my way to make the switch at this phase in the game if the map is forcing a fuel shortage.


Electric furnaces really only come into their own when you're ready to start using modules and don't really care too much about power constraints anymore. Once you're at beacons+modules, they are clearly fantastic.

[Peter]

I don't think I've ever designed my stone/steel production to take electric furnaces into account. They've only gone in outpost smelting areas.

[walter]

Well you can add upgrade modules to electric furnaces, so they have their merrits.
But of course, you need even more power for those, so i would agree that using them wit only steam engines is probably not a good way to use resources.

On the other hand, coal becomes pretty useless when you move away from steel furnaces and steam engines anyway, so wasting it is not too bad if you have enough coal.

[Killcreek2]

Originally posted by Colonel Sanders Lite:

Electric furnaces really only come into their own when you're ready to start using modules and don't really care too much about power constraints anymore. Once you're at beacons+modules, they are clearly fantastic.

Exactly right. Before T3 modules & beacons, the Steel Furnace rules supreme. (Feed 'em solid fuel if you can.)
I regrettably do not use them often enough during midgame, as I'm usually building a large rail network with the steel plates instead.

[Colonel Sanders Lite]

Originally posted by walter:

Well you can add upgrade modules to electric furnaces, so they have their merrits.

Already acknowledged.

Originally posted by Colonel Sanders Lite:

Electric furnaces really only come into their own when you're ready to start using modules and don't really care too much about power constraints anymore. Once you're at beacons+modules, they are clearly fantastic.

The point isn't that electric furnaces shouldn't be used at all. The point is pretty much that they shouldn't be rushed.

Until you get modules really going well, electric furnaces just aren't great. Situationally useful at best.

The only question I would have is - What percentage of bases tend to continue into the phase of the game where real module production is a thing?

[Teh Freek]

Originally posted by Colonel Sanders Lite:

Electric furnaces really only come into their own when you're ready to start using modules and don't really care too much about power constraints anymore. Once you're at beacons+modules, they are clearly fantastic.

No, they're mediocre. Smelting is approximately the last place you want to use productivity modules[factoriocheatsheet.com] unless you're extremely strapped for ore.

[walter]

Originally posted by Colonel Sanders Lite:

Originally posted by walter:

Well you can add upgrade modules to electric furnaces, so they have their merrits.

Already acknowledged.

Yeah, i missed that point.

[Killcreek2]

Originally posted by Colonel Sanders Lite:

The only question I would have is - What percentage of bases tend to continue into the phase of the game where real module production is a thing?

Totally depends on the player. Most of my factories end up fully beaconed from labs / rocket all the way down to furnaces.


Teh Freek is right about prod in elec smelters, as it really is the last place they should be installed. That said, for a megabase it is totally worth the effort (if only for the UPS saving).

[walter]

Originally posted by Teh Freek:

Originally posted by Colonel Sanders Lite:

Electric furnaces really only come into their own when you're ready to start using modules and don't really care too much about power constraints anymore. Once you're at beacons+modules, they are clearly fantastic.

No, they're mediocre. Smelting is approximately the last place you want to use productivity modules[factoriocheatsheet.com] unless you're extremely strapped for ore.

Speed modules, man ;-)

[Colonel Sanders Lite]

Originally posted by Killcreek2:

Totally depends on the player. Most of my factories end up fully beaconed from labs / rocket all the way down to furnaces.

Mine too. That being said, I don't have any percentages on it, but my gut instinct tells me that the majority of factories only build up enough to launch a couple of rockets and call it done, if the player can even get that far.

Originally posted by Killcreek2:

That said, for a megabase it is totally worth the effort (if only for the UPS saving).

Yep, and the post rocket launch-megabase phase is what I'm calling the late game.

Sure, a person could argue that the smelters are the last place to use modules. I'm not sure it's really relevant to the post rocket part of the game as you're probably going to module *everything* anyways.

[Colonel Sanders Lite]

Originally posted by Killcreek2:

Originally posted by Colonel Sanders Lite:

Electric furnaces really only come into their own when you're ready to start using modules and don't really care too much about power constraints anymore. Once you're at beacons+modules, they are clearly fantastic.

I regrettably do not use them often enough during midgame, as I'm usually building a large rail network with the steel plates instead.

Do you stick with stone furnaces? I was thinking you meant you go with electric furnaces due to steel shortages, but then I realized that this doesn't make any sense because electric furnaces use more steel than steel furnaces do.

[Killcreek2]

Originally posted by Colonel Sanders Lite:

Do you stick with stone furnaces? I was thinking you meant you go with electric furnaces due to steel shortages, but then I realized that this doesn't make any sense because electric furnaces use more steel than steel furnaces do.

Actually, yes, I often do exactly that for the seed factory. ~ It takes 2x stone furnace to give same output as steel furnaces, but space is unlimited & it does not take too many to pass blue sci techs in a reasonable time (capable of approx 1 each /sec for RGB sci, 0.5 /s for PY & Military).

Once the initial sections of the main tracks are completed, I'm usually at / near purple / yellow sci, T3 modules, & requestor chests. Then it is time to start building the megabase facilities, using full bacon & module designs, while using the initial seed factory as a shop / trickle researcher. As production facilities are completed, the corresponding sections are removed from the seed factory & replaced by a train delivery instead, & eventually it becomes purely a player shop area.

[impetus_maximus]

thing with stone furnaces. they are half as fast, and use fuel at the same rate as steel.

[Morsk]

I agree 90% but am nitpicking! I blame caffeine.

Originally posted by Colonel Sanders Lite:

Steel furnaces convert the fuel into energy at 100% efficiency, while boilers convert fuel into energy at 50% efficiency.

This will be changed in 0.17, according to FFF 266[www.factorio.com]. Boilers will be buffed to 100%, and coal itself nerfed by 1/2, making them equal to the furnaces. I will still use steel furnaces in the main smelting area, because it works and is compact. But it will make smelting at mines with electric furnaces viable earlier, before modules.

Originally posted by Teh Freek:

No, they're mediocre. Smelting is approximately the last place you want to use productivity modules[factoriocheatsheet.com] unless you're extremely strapped for ore.

You'll still save more ore putting the modules anywhere else. Except a machine you aren't using, I guess. I don't find it intuitive but I trust the way it's calculated.

Originally posted by walter:

Speed modules, man ;-)

Speed module is a waste of materials that could have been a prod module! :) Unless it's in beacons buffing machines with prod modules. Then there's a synergy and it saves modules.

[Killcreek2]

Originally posted by impetus maximus:

thing with stone furnaces. they are half as fast, and use fuel at the same rate as steel.

This is why I regret not using them often enough in midgame, as it would smooth-out the transition to megabase.

[AlabasterSXS]

By the time I phased out my steel furnace array, I had 1k electric furnaces, and needed the room for streamlining purposes. The factory slowed down noticably, but direct plates from trains get it going again.

I use productivity modules in my 1.5k furnaces because my map has 4mil ore mines on average.

No beacons and yellow belts only.