Steam turbine question

[DCYW]

Sounds like a noob question to ask, but can I use the steam turbines for the steam engines instead of nuclear power, even though researched tech?.

[piccolo255]

You can, but the turbines will be much more expensive.

From the wiki ( https://wiki.factorio.com/Steam_turbine ):

While designed for the 500°C steam of a nuclear reactor, turbines can still be connected to boilers for use in conventional 165°C steam power. At this mode, the steam turbine acts like two separate steam engines, producing 1800 kW and consuming 60 steam/sec. However, actual power production is based on the temperature of the steam, not the building itself. This means that using a steam turbine is no more fuel-efficient than using two steam engines, so it's generally not recommended to use the much more expensive turbines with boiler steam, unless space saving is a concern.

[astrosha]

One boiler generates 1800 kW energy. No matter which type of power converter you use - steam engine or steam turbne - you can only get 1800 kW from any one boiler.

On the flip side, using steam engines (at 900 kW each) can work instead of the steam turbines, in nuclear power .. just takes up a lot more space and needs a lot more machines to get all the power.

[DCYW]

basically meaning an boiler with no water input but produces steam instead (based on the wiki diagram), right?

Thanks for the wiki piccolo.

[piccolo255]

Originally posted by DCYW:

basically meaning an boiler with no water input but produces steam instead (based on the wiki diagram), right?

Turbine replaces the steam engine, so you still need boilers. Boilers (and nuclear reactors) turn water into steam. Steam engines and steam turbines use that steam to make electricity.

[DCYW]

Alternative steam power plants? I see. So the turbines is the first thing to setup before nuclear to start powerup once connected to heat pipes. No wonder the heat exchangers are there.

[AlexMBrennan]

On the flip side, using steam engines (at 900 kW each) can work instead of the steam turbines, in nuclear power .. just takes up a lot more space and needs a lot more machines to get all the power.

Why do people do this? Instead of spending approximately 3min in game you make these grand theories and lecture others without ever bothering to see if any of your conclusions are remotely true. I really don't get this.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1513269290

The explanation for why you lose most of your power is obvious - all buildings have a limited throughput, which in this case is 30 steam/s for steam engines and 60 steam/s for heat exchangers. Steam engines can only utilize low temperature steam, so the extra energy is wasted because 60 steam/s only allows you to run 2 steam engines. To get all the power you need a steam turbine which can utilize high temperature steam.

[DCYW]

Were you talking to me, Alex?

[piccolo255]

Originally posted by DCYW:

Were you talking to me, Alex?

He quoted atrosha, so no, he wasn't talking to you :)

[DCYW]

: D phewy

[DCYW]

So meaning those heat exchangers are there to powerup those turbines, acting like alternative steam engines, right?.

[piccolo255]

Originally posted by DCYW:

So meaning those heat exchangers are there to powerup those turbines, acting like an alternative steam engines, right?.

Yes! They get "heat" from nuclear reactors and use it to convert water into steam.

[astrosha]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

On the flip side, using steam engines (at 900 kW each) can work instead of the steam turbines, in nuclear power .. just takes up a lot more space and needs a lot more machines to get all the power.

Why do people do this? Instead of spending approximately 3min in game you make these grand theories and lecture others without ever bothering to see if any of your conclusions are remotely true. I really don't get this.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1513269290

The explanation for why you lose most of your power is obvious - all buildings have a limited throughput, which in this case is 30 steam/s for steam engines and 60 steam/s for heat exchangers. Steam engines can only utilize low temperature steam, so the extra energy is wasted because 60 steam/s only allows you to run 2 steam engines. To get all the power you need a steam turbine which can utilize high temperature steam.

You've just proven my point, actually. it takes 4 engines to use the steam up from a single heat exchanger. It only takes a little under two turbines to use up the same amount of steam from that same heat exchanger.

A single reactor generated 40 MW. That takes 4 heat exchangers and 7 turbines to get all that power turned into electricity. You'd need around 15, maybe 16 steam engines to convert all that steam from those 4 heat exchangers into electricity. More machines, and more space.

Nowhere near as good, but I never said it was. I said it can work.

[DCYW]

i guess that steam engines are replaced by turbines because of less pollution.

[AlexMBrennan]

You've just proven my point, actually. it takes 4 engines to use the steam up from a single heat exchanger.

No. It takes two steam engines to use up all the steam generated by one heat exchanger. The rest of the power - 6.4MW, or 64% - is lost. You can hook up a million steam engines and will never get more than 3.6MW per heat exchanger.

Try having another look at the above picture: 10 steam engines (nominal output 900kW each, or 9MW in total) producing 3.6MW when supplied by one heat exchanger while running at maximum capacity.

[piccolo255]

Originally posted by DCYW:

i guess that steam engines are replaced by turbines because of less pollution.

No, steam engines do not create any pollution. Boilers create pollution.

Steam engines are replaced by turbines because turbines are more efficient for nuclear power. Steam engines work well with boilers. Steam turbines work well with heat exchangers and nuclear reactors.