Factorio

Factorio

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pendantry Aug 22, 2018 @ 6:04am
Some questions about fluid wagons
I've been reading the wiki and have watched a couple of tutorial videos on YouTube, but I'm still a little puzzled about some things to do with fluid wagons.

I want to add a fluid wagon train into my rail network...

1. I understand that it's best to fill the fluid wagon from a storage tank. So, do I just use one pump to connect to the fluid wagon? (The information I've gathered so far makes me think I can use three pumps somehow, but I think that was prior to the current version.)

1a. :) Should / can I use a pump to pressurise / unpressurise the storage tanks for faster loading and unloading?

2. I want to transport sulfuric acid south (to use in mining uranium ore), and then have the train go further south to pick up crude oil from some oilfields down there. Can I use the same fluid wagon for both materials, or do I need two, one for each type of fluid? (Or maybe two trains?)

I'm sure I have more questions, but that's enough to be getting on with!

Thanks in advance for any pointers you can give this newbie! :D
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juliejayne Aug 22, 2018 @ 6:09am 
1. Extra Electric Pumps will speed up loading and unloading.. but are not strictly neccessary.
2. In theory you could, but in practice it is far more advisable to use 2 trains or at least 2 seperate rail tankers. You do NOT want to mix acid and oil.
1) One is the only thing you need, connect both loading and unloading stations to tanks directly, is significantly faster like written here: The Factorio Cheat Sheet[dddgamer.github.io] (go down to Fluid wagon Transfer)

2) Not necessary about mixing fluids, since that is impossible(one replaces the other). For the 2 Tanker Carts, just make sure you connect each one of them right and then you're good to go. Alhought doing 2 Seperate Trains helps you expand your system further, once your Factory grows.
Last edited by The Undead Watcher; Aug 22, 2018 @ 6:42am
pendantry Aug 22, 2018 @ 6:52am 
Thanks for your answers, guys!

What about 1a though? Should I have pumps before the storage tanks to pressurise them ready for the next load?

That is to say...

pipe > pump > storage tank > pump > fluid wagon

?
Warlord Aug 22, 2018 @ 7:05am 
Originally posted by pendantry:
Thanks for your answers, guys!

What about 1a though? Should I have pumps before the storage tanks to pressurise them ready for the next load?

That is to say...

pipe > pump > storage tank > pump > fluid wagon

?

I don't think it really matters. A liquid tank has SO MUCH storage compared to the pipes next to it, that you're likely to only increase the total liquid stored in a tank by about 10%, vs just letting it all settle among the pipes and tanks. When it comes to pumping from a tank to the train, what really matters is the amount that is currently in the tanks. As they empty, the liquid from the nearby pipes will flow into the void left by the tanks, helping to compensate. But it shouldn't affect the flow rate of filling a wagon.

That being said, I do suggest you use pumps to pre-fill the tanks, if you use a setup where you got a lot of production. Sometimes you can be making so much liquid that letting liquids settle on their own in a large network can actually end up causing pipes on the far end to fill up and not drain fast enough. If that happens, the product backs up in the machines (refinery / oil cracker) and your production of the product stops.

I use two pumps to fill up / empty my train. You can do two tanks side by side facing eachother and get in 2 pumps connected to a train. That allows you to empty/fill a liquid wagon in about 5 seconds flat, more than fast enough for anything.

You CAN hook up 3 pumps to one wagon, it is not old information. However, it's not possible to hook up 3 tank>pump>wagon without it looking really funky. It's much simpler/cleaner to just use 2 pumps/tanks, and as I said up above it's fast enough. It's interesting, that if you put in even a single pipe between a pump and a tank, it lowers the fill speed by a TON.

I don't recommend using the same train to deliver acid to a uranium mine AND pick up oil. Uranium mines use so little acid in their operation, that they tend to only use 1/10 of a wagon-load per load of ore. If your mine isn't freakin gigantic, you're likely to end up with a train that is 90% full of acid leaving to pick up oil, and liquids do not mix. Use a separate wagon for each liquid, or just run separate trains. Personally, I put the acid wagon on the same train that picks up and delivers the Uranium ore.
Last edited by Warlord; Aug 22, 2018 @ 10:00am
pendantry Aug 22, 2018 @ 9:42am 
Thanks a ton for taking the time to write all that, Warlord! Very interesting stuff. I took your advice, didn't use a pump before the storage tank, and it went off without a hitch.
Antarata Aug 22, 2018 @ 2:13pm 
Maybe put the acid in some barrels and have a section reserved for them in your cargo train?

So you refill the sulphuric acid when you collect the ore.
Overeagerdragon Aug 22, 2018 @ 3:01pm 
my 2 cents on the matter:

I considder fluid wagons as a "mobile Storage tank" and treat them the same way. Thinking about them like this basically means:

* I only use 1 train per fluid type
Although you CAN use the same (fluid) tank(er) for multiple fluids it's usually a bigger hassle than it's worth. It involves a lot of circuit and logistic networking to hook up more than 1 fluid to the same tank AND using it this way (usually) also means you can't use the "inventory empty/full" train conditions either.

* ALWAYS use pumps to BOTH the train tanker as well as the tanker that connects to it. This is mainly because of what Warlord said earlier but with 1 extra addition to that: You want all the fluid to collect in the tank. Look at pumps as a inserter...a pump connected directly FROM a factory will PULL everything it can out of the factory unless its destination is full. Connected to a fluid tank it PUSHES everything into the destination as long as the origin has ANY amount AND the destination isn't full....so Ideally you would want to go Factory>Pump>Tank/Train without any pipes in between. Because you usually will want to transport the liquid it usually ends up with me building Factory>Pump>Pipes>Pump>Tank/Train. This has an added benefit: in detailed mode it means that if there's any fluid displayed in the pipes it means your tank is full (no need to guess if it's 90>99% full) because the combination of pumps means the fluid is vacuumed into the tanks.

* Using trains like this has another neat effect when used with the "inventory empty/full" condition. It becomes a tank-buffer on wheels meaning you can take that sulpheric acid to that mining depot, empty it into a tank and use the train itself as a buffer meaning that unless the distance it needs to travel is greater than the time required to empty that sulpheric storage tank; operations will never diminish below 100% (provided you used a pump to connect the sulperic acid to the miners). This reduces the amount of trains on the tracks (meaning less signal hassle early game for trains riding on the same tracks), saves on fuel consumption and improves throughput. Which is another reason why you should never mix fluids as the consumption/production of 1 fluid hardly ever matches up to the consumption/production of another.

EDIT: Also never use a pipe to pull fluids from a tank...fluid levels are based upon load...so a tank at 70% ALSO means the pipe directly connected to it will only be filled for 70% of it's load....and that becomes a hassle at longer distances
Last edited by Overeagerdragon; Aug 22, 2018 @ 3:03pm
AlexMBrennan Aug 22, 2018 @ 3:26pm 
It involves a lot of circuit and logistic networking to hook up more than 1 fluid to the same tank AND using it this way (usually) also means you can't use the "inventory empty/full" train conditions either.
What? How? E.g. the following works fine without any circuits or logistic networking.

Crude loading: wait until full
Crude unloading: wait until empty
Acid loading: wait until full
Acid unloading: wait until empty

I can't see this being very useful but who am I to judge?

This reduces the amount of trains on the tracks (meaning less signal hassle early game for trains riding on the same tracks), saves on fuel consumption and improves throughput.
Wrong - if you need X trainloads of acid per minute then you need X trainloads of acid regardless of whether the train is intermittently parked at outposts or your central base. At best this partial unloading might save you a couple of storage tanks at outposts.
Overeagerdragon Aug 22, 2018 @ 4:00pm 
Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:
It involves a lot of circuit and logistic networking to hook up more than 1 fluid to the same tank AND using it this way (usually) also means you can't use the "inventory empty/full" train conditions either.
What? How? E.g. the following works fine without any circuits or logistic networking.

Crude loading: wait until full
Crude unloading: wait until empty
Acid loading: wait until full
Acid unloading: wait until empty

I can't see this being very useful but who am I to judge?

This reduces the amount of trains on the tracks (meaning less signal hassle early game for trains riding on the same tracks), saves on fuel consumption and improves throughput.
Wrong - if you need X trainloads of acid per minute then you need X trainloads of acid regardless of whether the train is intermittently parked at outposts or your central base. At best this partial unloading might save you a couple of storage tanks at outposts.

As for the first question...
* I was literally meaning using 1 fluid tank/railtanker for multiple fluids. See threads about running more than 1 type of fluid through the same pipe. THAT involves a lot of logic/circuit networking. DOING that also immediately means you won't be able to use either condition on the train because either the train is never full OR never empty....meaning either condition can't be used anymore. Again this is about using 1 railtanker cart for multiple fluids not 1 train with multiple tankercarts.

As for question 2:
* Yes you will still need the same amount of loads/minute that won't change and yes this saves on tanks on both destination and origin points but in effect it means you can spread that load around on rails. Because that train will function as a movable tanker it means that whilst it's standing still another train can dock at THE SAME STATION to load up on acid for usage on another destination.
The increased throughput is obtained through usage of that fluid. Whilst the (for instance) miners are using the fluid from the tank, the train can load up acid again. Maybe that's because of mods I'm using but miner efficiency goes down when pipes running the fluid through aren't filled to 100% Whereas if you use tanks to use that fluid you will need to build in such a manner that when using more than 1 fluidtanker cart you need to be sure that both fluids are produced at the same rate to avoid the train tanking up/off on oil whilst sulpheric acid is running low again (or vice versa).

Maybe my bad for not being clear enough on that matter.
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Date Posted: Aug 22, 2018 @ 6:04am
Posts: 9