Red/Green Wires - Can these be 'fixed'?

[RiiDii]

I've got a few issues with Red/Green Wires ("wires," not Copper "Cables"). The first is the cost-then-loss problem. There are so many other things that I wish could be destroyed so easily - like wood. But no. Wires, which cost a circuit-board and some copper (both highly-valued much more than wood) just simply vanish when you cut them.

One miss-click - poof! There goes your ingredients. Wired it wrong? Too bad - you lose: No take-backs. Unlike virtually everything else in Factorio - if you make a mistake, just pick it up and try again and again until you get it right. Not with wires [sad face emoji].

But that cost-and-loss is ok because of the second problem; wires can be placed for no cost using Blueprints. A long time ago, I automated Red and Green Wire production into my factories. But no more. No need to. While it may seem odd to complain about getting something for nothing, one must admit this feels like a hack by taking advantage of [perhaps] a design flaw.

This second problem also [kind of] robs players of having to include wire production in their factories. If you don't think this is a problem, expand the concept to almost everything else in Factorio and... well... you don't have a game anymore.

So, not to just complain, but to also try to be empathetic to the devs. I realize that [perhaps] wires, not being like other objects in the game, are difficult to code to work like the other objects. So, I get that workarounds might be needed. I also think there might be slightly better solutions. Which brings me to the constructive component of my criticism.

For the lost-wires problem, make wires a bit cheaper. I know this is a little difficult since they only require one Copper Cable and one Green Circuit. However, you can have the recipe make two or even three wires instead of just one. Also, if the wire is cut "properly" (using the same color-wire across the connection), then return the wire to the inventory. Otherwise, if a wire is cut by removing an item, then the wire is lost (you just ripped that sucker out).

As far as the blueprint issue, we already don't see bots placing the wires, so maybe just take wires out of the logistics network or player's inventory - no additional animation showing the bots connecting the wires needed. If the network or inventory do not have the required wire(s), then it doesn't get connected. This might lead to some other problems, of course. I don't know how easy/difficult it would be to keep track of unplaced wires so they can be placed later when they become available. Or, do you just not place and the player has to figure that out?

[The Undead Watcher]

I just read the first paragraph of your "problem" and im not gonna bother with reading the rest, and i can tell its only in your head. IF you think expanding 2 Copper Ore and 1 Iron Ore on a cable is WAY too much for you, then you might wanna think again.
You can prioritise where you stuff goes with the splitters now, so use that to first supply the most important parts of your Factory, then the rest.

My Mall for example has all three: Red and Green Wire + Normal copper wire Production for me to take, but the entire "Assembly Line" is only supplyed with mats if all other Assembly lines following the Mall are backed up with mats.

But of course(just because i might come off as Offensive or Edgy again) this would be a nice quality of life Feature. Just let them finish and push the 0.17 into the public. Maby they'll add that in befor 0.17 if everything goes right.

[KatherineOfSky]

The cost is mitigated by the fact that when you place wires via blueprint/bots, they are entirely free.

Also, I never make wires in the factory -- I handcraft the very few that are needed to start a project, then BP the rest.

[THE kilroy]

Easy fix, which is used for many issues in factorio... More production.

[Ryan]

Wires aren't used all that much, so it doesn't even matter in the grand scheme of things.

[Warlord]

Publicado originalmente por Ryan:

Wires aren't used all that much, so it doesn't even matter in the grand scheme of things.

For me, that is true. I tend to use up maybe 10 at most in my mega factories. I don't use complex circuit designs, I have never even built a combinator before. It's much simpler - to me - to simply over-produce anything, rather than circuitry-it-up to cover for underproduction issues.

The 10 I use are almost entirely for oil processing, to make sure that cracking doesn't use up all my light/heavy for cracking. That can't be overcome by "overproduction."

[RiiDii]

@The Undead Watcher and [maybe] @KatherineOfSky
I guess I started off like a whining-complaining troll with no insight or offered solutions? I did not realize that was a problem, or that reading more than a paragraph was a problem. Too bad - you missed the BP issue (talking to you, KatherineOfSky [big fan of your videos, btw]), empathy for the devs, and some ideas on how to solve these minor problems.

I agree these are easy QOL fixes that can wait.

From other comments: In regards to you not using wires, that's your preference. But I think you're missing the very feature that makes Factorio so popular: There's never just one way to do things, catering to a wide variety of preferences. I liked using wires: Lots of wires. I like them a lot less now because of these problems. They are annoying now because they are broken.

I'm sorry if you get a lot of whiners and complainers here. I thought I was helping.

[Ryan]

I think that once you get larger and more mature factories you will realize you are fretting over a lost spoonful from an ocean of resources. Even if you make and destroy hundreds or a thousand wires, it is insignificant.

If you keep things tiny with a handful of miners, then yes, losing a few thousand copper might matter. But then again, most people will blow millions just defending their base. So again, it's insignificant.

[The Undead Watcher]

Publicado originalmente por plewis118:

@The Undead Watcher and [maybe] @KatherineOfSky
I guess I started off like a whining-complaining troll with no insight or offered solutions? I did not realize that was a problem, or that reading more than a paragraph was a problem. Too bad - you missed the BP issue (talking to you, KatherineOfSky [big fan of your videos, btw]), empathy for the devs, and some ideas on how to solve these minor problems.

I agree these are easy QOL fixes that can wait.[/quote]
Not coming of as whiny, not at all, but your second paragraph(or the second part of your first one)......wait. Oh..OH! Give me second...

Publicado originalmente por plewis118:

I've got a few issues with Red/Green Wires. I can't pick them up once i misplaced them but that isn't that much of a problem Cost wise, since we get the Cables for free if we place them with Bots.

So my proposition: increas the Output of the Logic Network wires(Red & Green) and if you have a red or Green wire in the hand, "mining" a power pole that has the wire(s) attached to it, will remove and give the respectiv wire back(for green you need Green and red on red).

Bots could take the respective wires out of the Log-Network/Player Inventory and "place" them like i would, to balance the increased Output, basically making it on par with other Entities like Inserters or Assemblers.

wich might be a good thought, but i'm not sure, if that is even possible. The wires might be an item, wich you "can't mine" when it is "merged" with a Electric Pole, since it becomes part of the electric pole(a trait perhaps?) so the games engine can't tell the difference anymore between the electric Pole and the wire(althought then how can you disconnect the normal copper wires?) so it should be doable.

Sry if i came off as rude. Walls of text are ok, but only in certain contexts. Like you see above, i basically shortened your text down to its essential parts. Maby next time just shorten your text down a bit, just leave the essential part there. I know you just want to prevent any misunderstandings, but thats what a discussion(and by that extend a forum) is there for(i do it even too ;) ). There are alot of really friendly open minded people around here, that just want to help and discuss with you. I might be the rudest of them all, since i'm a hardcore introvert and still need to learn, not to "rip peoples head off". Especially to new players(if you even are one, but i don't thinks so).

What also might help is adding Tags(i.e. [Suggestion]) to your titel, allready clearify things beforhand.

(Like my wall of Text is also annoying, but i fall into the same Category as you: i don't want to be misunderstood, so meh)

[The Undead Watcher]

Also splitting this now into two post: Basically what Ryan says.
The only limit you have in Factorio, is the UPS, nothing more. So go crazy, crank that production up, add an extra Train line onto your bus to deliver Green Circuits...heck just replace the entire bus with Train lines and supply your Assembly lines with off load Stations

[Warlord]

Publicado originalmente por The Undead Watcher:

The wires might be an item, wich you "can't mine" when it is "merged" with a Electric Pole, since it becomes part of the electric pole(a trait perhaps?) so the games engine can't tell the difference anymore between the electric Pole and the wire(althought then how can you disconnect the normal copper wires?) so it should be doable.

This is what I was thinking. I bet the game simply isn't designed to keep track of the green/red wire as an item after it is attached to a pole. I suppose they COULD figure out how to put it back in, but it's almost like asking them to refund electric pole wires when we deconstruct, too. Since those wires are magically created when placed, I'd rather not deal with the hassle.

[RiiDii]

All good points I agree with. The one remaining issue is for those of us (and I think there are many like me) that must have things just right; "It has to look good," "It has to be even," and even "It has to make [some] sense." I guess the wires-problem just bugs me like spaghetti-belts bother other folks. Then again, that seems to be a common trait that Factorio attracts for better or worse.

[The Undead Watcher]

I can't stand the Wireing of the poles when they are all over the place, crossing each other(especially when they're placed by bots!).
Now, if the Devs could somehow register the cables between the poles as a standalone "entitie", that would make things much cleaner, since those would then be strictly marked insied the BP, so bots would have to place them like specified.

Maby in later releases, we'll have to see. Still good suggestion Thread.