Trains? WTF?

[mikemonger]

I have a more or less straight section of track. No branches. No signals. Nothing.

I have a station at one end. I have a station at the other end.

I have a train with locomotives at both ends. As far as I can tell, they're both pointing in the right direction (at least that's what the headlights say).

If I hop in one locomotive, I can drive to one station. If I jump in the other locomotive, I can drive right back to the other station.

So...why "No Path"? It makes no sense. I enjoy this game, but this part of it is poorly implemented.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by mikemonger:

You're describing far more complicated setup then what I was attempting. Train goes forward. Train goes backward. Engines on both ends assure this is possible (in auto mode...in manual mode they can go in reverse, which is another flaw in the auto-logic, but whatever).

I kind of see the logic of it. Basically, when a train is entering the station, it needs to stop at the station signal. Maybe the simplictiy of the setup was what was confusing me. I though getting the template to cover the end of the line was enough. Obviously it isn't.

Whatever. Like I said, I enjoy the game. But the train implementation is the first and only thing that didn't seem logical.

From what I've read you seem to be making the assumption/conclusion that a Train Stop can be approached from either side, and can leave the station from either side, this is NOT the case.

When you, for example, place a train stop on the right side of a north/south track, the arrows show you that this train stop is expecting and accepting trains from the southern direction only. If you do this at both the north, AND south ends of the track, you have two stops expecting trains from the south, but only one of which (The northern one) is actually approachable from the south side, This means you'll get a no path error when trying to send the train from the northern stop, to the southern one, because there is literally no way for the train to approach that south train stop from the southern side it is expecting trains to come from, since its a dead end.

When a train is AT a stop, it can leave in either direction, but it MUST approach the stop from the direction the arrows indicate.

[Ryan]

Originally posted by mikemonger:

I didn't say there were bugs. I just said that the train system is entirely counter intuitive. It shouldn't take a couple of hours of tinkering, mulitple board postings, and luck to get a straight, two station setup going. It's completely counter-intuitive.

For example, in this setup, why does the side of the track the station is on matter? If the train is exiting and leaving from the same direction, how does that matter?

There is a train tutorial and Train Guides which should explain the basics. It actually matters a lot which side the Train Station is on. There is a very logical reason for it.

A train will only approach a station that is on the right side of the track. The reason for this is when you get complicated train setups, your trains always approach the Train Stations from the same direction EVERY TIME. This makes your trains travel in a predictable way. If it didn't matter, like you said, because it is unintuitive and makes no sense, then trains would approachs stations from different directions which would cause chaos to your train routes. Trains would approach stations from different directions and block each other. Even worse, your inserters would be on the wrong side of the train engine and would not unload your cargo.

Do the tutorial and reach a train guide. The complexity of the system is what makes it fun because you can do all kinds of really neat things.

[Antarata]

Train tutorial is useless in my experience, it just made me more confused. I passed it through sheer luck. I had to go find a really good tutorial to explain it, because some people just need to see it work. Most train guides won't tell you this, but a signal won't let a train pass if there is another train that cannot stop in time approaching the area in front of it. That cleared my confusion.

[jamagushi]

Hey OP, I know how you feel, as a noob in the game myself have trouble understanindg trains. This tutorial does a good job of explaining the basic, hope it can help you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjT0Xgfwwiw

Other than that after getting over a slump and figuring something out is the best part about factorio =)

[Hedning]

Originally posted by Antarata:

Most train guides won't tell you this, but a signal won't let a train pass if there is another train that cannot stop in time approaching the area in front of it. That cleared my confusion.

"Most train guides won't tell you this, but the purpose of signals is to prevent crashes"

Do you realize how you sound? Why would signals allow crashing trains? Also it is easy to see as the lights turn yellow for the train reserving the sections and red for everyone else.

[AlexMBrennan]

For example, in this setup, why does the side of the track the station is on matter?

Because it is possible to imagine a scenario where the train stop is in the middle of a track, in which case it will become necessary to tell the computer from which side the train should approach the station.

Now I just need to figue out why it's deciding to ignore the Wait until conditions. I need to manually click "go to station" every time it's fully loaded or unloaded.

You probably have the conditions flipped. Remember, the WAIT condition specifies how long the train should wait at the current stop before moving on to the next (instead of the GOTO condition you are treating it as). That's why it's called a wait condition and not a goto condition.

[JoshW12]

Trains aren't poorly implemented lol, just poorly used.

[Name Lips]

The levels of complexity might make for a tough learning curve at the beginning, and seem like arbitrary rules, but they allow for much more complex and amazing rail networks later on.

[Martin Harris]

It has to be in a circle, because the trains need to be able to go around, make sure stations are on right side too.

[Martin Harris]

and do train tutorials and look how they do it

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by ThePatchWorkHoax:

It has to be in a circle, because the trains need to be able to go around, make sure stations are on right side too.

Not quite accurate. You can do it on a single straight track. But as stated above, the stations MUST be on the correct sides of the track, or it wont work. for a North-South track, this means the north end needs the station on the right side of the track, and the south end needs the station on the left side of the track, and i think you need a locomotive on both ends of the train.

[Charlie]

A lot of this could of got solved a lot quicker if you werent so counter-intuitive that you dont even want to post a screenshot.

[Jeembo]

Originally posted by Baron Von poops:

A lot of this could of got solved a lot quicker if you werent so counter-intuitive that you dont even want to post a screenshot.

That would eventually prove that the OP was/is at fault & not the system which works just fine once you understand it.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by Jeembo:

Originally posted by Baron Von poops:

A lot of this could of got solved a lot quicker if you werent so counter-intuitive that you dont even want to post a screenshot.

That would eventually prove that the OP was/is at fault & not the system which works just fine once you understand it.

EXACTLY! Must admit that i, too, once was stuck with the trains system like OP. We all were.

[Cap]

Yeah I've never had a problem with the trains. Having the directions right on the train stops was probably the issue. I love the trains in the game, I've played a lot of transport games with trains though, so maybe they naturally made sense to me due to my experience with it. I love having rocket fueled trains circling the walls squashing the incoming biters.

I could see how somebody who isn't familiar with train networks being confused when setting up any rail system. Getting all the little details right can be daunting at first, but easy after you learn it.