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Needs up to the first rocket
I've been doing some thinking and tinkering and I'm wondering, what do you think a base needs in the way of resources in to comfortably launch that first rocket. Sure, we can all calculate that we need this many of x and that many of y to produce x sci packs per second, but as far as chewing your way through the tech tree so you can build your real base goes, things are a bit fuzzier.

Based on my experience, my current line of thinking goes something like -

All red belts, blue belts don't generally seem to be worthwhile to me until you're in the post rocket phase of the game.

6 Lines of iron ore to be turned into iron plates.
2 lines of iron ore for steel, but can be used as iron plates if the steel is backed up.
4 Lines of copper ore.
4 Lines of coal
2 Lines of stone
1 Line of uranium

Crude oil - Perhaps oil fields totaling around 8000% when they're fresh? I'm not really too sure. It's kind of a pain in the ass to really keep track of fluid flow rates in the game.

Your thoughts?
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Mostrando 1-9 de 9 comentarios
Derpykat5 21 ABR 2019 a las 19:18 
How big is a "line"?
piccolo255 21 ABR 2019 a las 19:38 
Publicado originalmente por derpykat5:
How big is a "line"?
I'm pretty sure that Colonel means a "belt". So 6 red belts of iron etc.

The problem is, that only affects the throughput. The difference between having 1 belt of iron and 8 belts of iron is simply how much time it will take to get the resources through to whatever place you need them. In other words, you can't answer the question without knowing the target SPM.

I'd just say that if you plan to stop at launching a rocket, you don't really need any uranium. Neither your power requirements nor the biter attacks are that bad before post-game.
Colonel Sanders Lite 21 ABR 2019 a las 20:50 
Yes, a line = a belt. A red belt in the hypothetical in the OP.

Publicado originalmente por piccolo255:
you can't answer the question without knowing the target SPM.

Well what do *you* consider to be a comfortable sustained SPM for a pre-rocket base. You see, personally, I'm not really interested in some real SPM goal and/or perfect ratios or any of that stuff before I have the tech to reach rockets because there's too much stuff buried in the tech tree that I would want to have before I'm willing to put too much effort into doing a really good job. It's not until after I have those techs that I will start to build the base that is going to do what I really want to do.

Publicado originalmente por piccolo255:
I'd just say that if you plan to stop at launching a rocket, you don't really need any uranium.

Yeah, see, I'm not talking about stopping at the rocket. I'm talking about what you need to build the base that you will use to build your base. Even ignoring that, I guess uranium depends on your biter settings, but even if you don't *really* need it, uranium bullets make grabbing new land much easier. As a side benefit, you'll get a jump of getting some 235 stores built up for when you do need it.
astrosha 21 ABR 2019 a las 21:34 
Pre-rocket base? I'd normalize the science production across all six types. I don't care what the "per second" figure is, I try to produce them all at the same rate.

Ignore for the moment the crafting speeds of AM1, AM2, and AM3. If you want to produce 2 Red/cycle, and each cycle is 5 long, then you need 10 machines producing it. If, having decided upon 2/cycle, you want to expand to Greens as well as Reds, you need 12 of the same type of machine making Green science. Military science is 10 long cycle, but each produces 2, so effectively it is 1/5 - so you need the same number and type of machines producing that as you do the Red.

If you only want one/cycle, then build accordingly.

The thing is, you don't want to underproduce anything, because that then becomes your bottleneck. If you're producing Reds at 10/sec, and green at 2/sec, every tech you research will be waiting on green production. Similarly, there's no point in overproducing science either - not unless you're storing it somewhere for future use. Again, if you are producing 10 reds and 2 greens, the extra 8 reds are not serving any purpose and you may very well have wanted the iron and copper for something else.

There is no correct answer for how much science to produce pre-rocket. 1/sec is 60/min. 5/sec is 300/min. 15/sec, one full yellow belt, is 900/min, and would be a good target should you be seeking to launch one rocket per minute, though you'll need a little more production of each non-white science per minute to avoid having a surplus of White science after a while.
Colonel Sanders Lite 21 ABR 2019 a las 22:03 
Publicado originalmente por astrosha:
snip

That's nice and all, but you're trying to answer a lot of unasked questions while not even attempting to answer the question actually asked. I didn't ask if there's a correct answer, I asked what you, personally, feel comfortable with. If you just normalize production across the 6 types to chew through the tech tree and call it good, what level of production do you aim to normalize it to and do you allocate for extra resources coming in to build materiel?
piccolo255 21 ABR 2019 a las 22:09 
Publicado originalmente por Colonel Sanders Lite:
Yeah, see, I'm not talking about stopping at the rocket. I'm talking about what you need to build the base that you will use to build your base. Even ignoring that, I guess uranium depends on your biter settings, but even if you don't *really* need it, uranium bullets make grabbing new land much easier. As a side benefit, you'll get a jump of getting some 235 stores built up for when you do need it.
Ah, you're talking about the bootstrap base. I misunderstood. In that case, yeah, it does make sense to start stockpiling U-235.

As for using that uranium, unless you raise the evolution speed, you can launch the rocket before behemoths appear, so you don't need uranium bullets yet; and power needs should be more than covered by solar and/or steam (unless you go big on prod/speed modules).

I guess it depends on whether you want to have nuclear ready for the "real" base, or plan to add it later. If latter, you can skip researching them until you need them, since those techs are very expensive, and will delay the rocket for quite a bit.

Publicado originalmente por Colonel Sanders Lite:
Well what do *you* consider to be a comfortable sustained SPM for a pre-rocket base. You see, personally, I'm not really interested in some real SPM goal and/or perfect ratios or any of that stuff before I have the tech to reach rockets because there's too much stuff buried in the tech tree that I would want to have before I'm willing to put too much effort into doing a really good job. It's not until after I have those techs that I will start to build the base that is going to do what I really want to do.
It's not so much about SPM in and of itself, but about "how fast do you want to reach the rocket stage". SPM is just an easy way to express that. It's perfectly possible to launch the rocket with one belt (or less) of each resource, you'll just have to wait a long time. If you're not interested in (rough, not precise!) SPM goals or ratios, then the answer to your question is "do whatever" :)

Personally, I go for "1 red/green per cycle" (5 red assembler, 6 green, 12 blue, 7 yellow, etc), or "2 blue/black per cycle" (10 red, 12 green, 24 blue, 14 yellow), and add resources as needed to saturate the inputs. I've been deliberately avoiding the main bus design for a while now, though, so I couldn't tell you how many belts that is (which is why I didn't say anything about it in my earlier reply).
Colonel Sanders Lite 21 ABR 2019 a las 23:05 
Publicado originalmente por piccolo255:
Personally, I go for "1 red/green per cycle" (5 red assembler, 6 green, 12 blue, 7 yellow, etc), or "2 blue/black per cycle" (10 red, 12 green, 24 blue, 14 yellow), and add resources as needed to saturate the inputs. I've been deliberately avoiding the main bus design for a while now, though, so I couldn't tell you how many belts that is (which is why I didn't say anything about it in my earlier reply).

Well, the math says that's roughly 30 or 60 spm and 60 spm would be

2 Lines of iron ore to be turned into iron plates.
2 Lines of iron ore for steel, but can be used as iron plates if the steel is backed up.
3 Lines of copper ore.
1 Line of coal
1 Line of stone

Of course, that doesn't include buidling or military supplies or power generation or fluctuations in research etc. That's a fair enough answer in my book, but I definitely am curious about what others think too.
brian_va 22 ABR 2019 a las 14:02 
Publicado originalmente por Colonel Sanders Lite:
Yeah, see, I'm not talking about stopping at the rocket. I'm talking about what you need to build the base that you will use to build your base.

Really depends on where you are drawing the line at moving from the starter base to the bigger base, and what the transition process is (bot deconstruction and loading to trains to recycle at the bigger base or just leaving it sit idle or run along side it or whatever you choose.)

I almost always play without biters, so bear that in mind and understand that adjustments or even just some priority splitting would be necessary to handle walls and ammo and such.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1720773616

this is how i have started to do new games lately. straight north is where stuff goes to the building area, where belts and assemblers and so on are made. typically 1 assembler per end product, speed really isn't a concern, i just want it making more stuff while im out setting up the precursors for the bigger base (ore mining, smelting, train stations and so on.)

out to the right is the feed for science. that one is plumbed up through purple packs, and adding yellows ins't too big of a concern. obviously it would run better if i connected up the 4th line for iron plates and added capacity for some others, but like the building materials, speed isn't too much of a concern. what im really looking for it to do is to churn away at science to more or less make a bee-line for the train stuff, then straight to logistic chests with a few other keys along the way. it is also not intended to launch a rocket, that will be handled by the proper science outpost.

but it all really depends on what you are trying to do and what you think is important.
baddragon 27 ENE 2020 a las 16:27 
Publicado originalmente por Colonel Sanders Lite:
6 Lines of iron ore to be turned into iron plates.
2 lines of iron ore for steel, but can be used as iron plates if the steel is backed up.
4 Lines of copper ore.
4 Lines of coal
2 Lines of stone
1 Line of uranium

Definitive proof that Factorio is a drug :-)
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Publicado el: 21 ABR 2019 a las 13:05
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