Need to learn to build and signal 4-lane rail

[BustedHipGaming]

Anyone know of a good tutorial on laying out tracks and signals in a 4-lane (2 in each direction) railroad rather than a 2-lane (one in each direction)?

[Grumpy Old Gamer]

Not a lot of info on it, since its almost never needed. I personally have never needed it even on a rocket per minute factory. Have you tried using longer trains?

[BustedHipGaming]

Originally posted by Shadow Raider:

Not a lot of info on it, since its almost never needed. I personally have never needed it even on a rocket per minute factory. Have you tried using longer trains?

Well, I mean, that depends on what size you consider to be "longer" :) What do you mean by "longer train?" My usual is 1 locomotive + 4 cars.

[Zorz]

Originally posted by BustedHipGaming:

Anyone know of a good tutorial on laying out tracks and signals in a 4-lane (2 in each direction) railroad rather than a 2-lane (one in each direction)?

best is to just build it by yourself. if u have understood how rails and signals work, then u can build each kind of rails.

here is a guide:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=932047819&searchtext=lane+rail

[Nasabot]

I always wondered, why people use 4 lane rails.
When I watch streams where people (with megabases) use it, a train rarely is on track, so the utilization is very low.

I wouldnt be surprised if4-lane tracks are completly unnessesary or even mess up train pathfinding and simulation speed.

[Fel]

"Longer trains" usually means those extra long trains that need multiple locomotives to push/pull them, so they tend to be around 8+ wagons and 2+ locomotives.
You would rarely use those types of trains except when the distances are really big or when you have very high throughput to transport between 2 stations while reducing the amount of trains needed.

For example if you bring the ores from a whole "region" of the map to a central drop-off where those heavy duty trains will take everything and take it to the place in your base where it is needed.
Often you use that "regional" station as a smelting station and the heavy trains just transport the plates.
In cases like that you probably also want to make the rail network of those heavy trains separate from the network used by your other trains, which results in 4 rails that are in fact 2 sets of 2 rails that never connect.

[THE kilroy]

Originally posted by BKNE Zorz:

Originally posted by BustedHipGaming:

Anyone know of a good tutorial on laying out tracks and signals in a 4-lane (2 in each direction) railroad rather than a 2-lane (one in each direction)?

best is to just build it by yourself. if u have understood how rails and signals work, then u can build each kind of rails.

here is a guide:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=932047819&searchtext=lane+rail

I use this l the time. There is a couple 2 lane track blueprints that i use for when resources are tight.

But anyway, longer trains wont be good enough on its own, at a certain scale. there are several methods with multi lane rails. Some do 1 lane as an onramp offramp with an express lane in the middle, others do dedicated directions, meaning left lane is the left turn lane etc,

Honestly a well thought out network is best to reduce tge number of crossings used. But having a passing lane can allow faster trains to stay fast, while a well designed intersection will reduce the number of trains that actually stop(slowing down is fine, but stop start is best way to plug up your rails network)

[AlexMBrennan]

best is to just build it by yourself. if u have understood how rails and signals work, then u can build each kind of rails.

Except that there are a million different ways of doing it (e.g. left turning lane can turn left immediately or as late as possible), and most of them will not support signal placement so why waste an hour redoing the signalling over and over again for slightly differently spaced train tracks when you could just copy one design that works?

It's manageable for 2 lanes (took me like 5 attempts last time), but 4 lanes and beyond just gets daunting.

[BustedHipGaming]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

best is to just build it by yourself. if u have understood how rails and signals work, then u can build each kind of rails.

Except that there are a million different ways of doing it (e.g. left turning lane can turn left immediately or as late as possible), and most of them will not support signal placement so why waste an hour redoing the signalling over and over again for slightly differently spaced train tracks when you could just copy one design that works?

It's manageable for 2 lanes (took me like 5 attempts last time), but 4 lanes and beyond just gets daunting.

That. So much that.

[Grumpy Old Gamer]

Originally posted by BustedHipGaming:

Originally posted by Shadow Raider:

Not a lot of info on it, since its almost never needed. I personally have never needed it even on a rocket per minute factory. Have you tried using longer trains?

Well, I mean, that depends on what size you consider to be "longer" :) What do you mean by "longer train?" My usual is 1 locomotive + 4 cars.

1-4 is a short train, by longer I mean at least 1-8 and I usually go up to 4-32 once th3e map gets above a certain size. engine to cargo ratio only effects accleration, not top speed. I have run as high as a 1-15 ratio befor eit starts to make any real difference. Longer trains haulmore cargo, so they are out ont he tracks less, which means more trains can use the track. The only downside is your stations get bigger, stackers are bigger, and the post intersection safe zones have to be longer.

But if yoa re currently using 1-4 trains, then just bupping it to 1-8 will nearly halve the congestion.

If youa re looking for a book, i recommend Cwhizard's Choo Choo Book on factorio prints. its a fairly comprehensive set of rail segments, interchanges, loading and unloading stations etc.

https://factorioprints.com/view/-LQfMD8FftIoCf8N73Ll

[Zorz]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

best is to just build it by yourself. if u have understood how rails and signals work, then u can build each kind of rails.

Except that there are a million different ways of doing it (e.g. left turning lane can turn left immediately or as late as possible), and most of them will not support signal placement so why waste an hour redoing the signalling over and over again for slightly differently spaced train tracks when you could just copy one design that works?

It's manageable for 2 lanes (took me like 5 attempts last time), but 4 lanes and beyond just gets daunting.

i prefer doing own designs and blueprints, but yeah, u have to know the basics like how signal and stuff works befor u can begin to build with own style.

[Overeagerdragon]

I'm a fervent user of 4 track railway lines but I DO have to admit that:
* Yes; it took me a long time to actually get a stable layout that functions like it should
* Yes; you do need (deep) insight in how the different signals work
* No; it has absolutely no function in early or mid-game
* No; it is not easy to expand upon
* Yes; for optimal use you can just as easily build 2 rail-systems with train stackers
* Yes; it does allow for a HUGE amount of traffic (AND EXPRESS LINES !!! for stuff you really need to get there without delay)

Tips:
* Start at thinking about why we build roads the way we do and why traffic jams occur.
* Once you have that down; STICK TO IT because if you don't you WILL clog up your ENTIRE network with as much as a single misplaced signal the more "roads" you add to said network

I usually build clockwise for dropoffs and counter-clockwise for pickups (which means you will have to build in U-turns but that actually increases flow rather than diminish it because those U-turns are the ONLY part in which your system can clog up; thusly completely disabling the need for stackers and being able to build central depots away from potential clogging points)

And finally:

* no there's hardly any tutorial for this
* Failure begets success (and expect a LOT of failure if you start branching out from 2 railtrack systems)

[BustedHipGaming]

Originally posted by Shadow Raider:

Originally posted by BustedHipGaming:

Well, I mean, that depends on what size you consider to be "longer" :) What do you mean by "longer train?" My usual is 1 locomotive + 4 cars.

1-4 is a short train, by longer I mean at least 1-8 and I usually go up to 4-32 once th3e map gets above a certain size. engine to cargo ratio only effects accleration, not top speed. I have run as high as a 1-15 ratio befor eit starts to make any real difference. Longer trains haulmore cargo, so they are out ont he tracks less, which means more trains can use the track. The only downside is your stations get bigger, stackers are bigger, and the post intersection safe zones have to be longer.

But if yoa re currently using 1-4 trains, then just bupping it to 1-8 will nearly halve the congestion.

If youa re looking for a book, i recommend Cwhizard's Choo Choo Book on factorio prints. its a fairly comprehensive set of rail segments, interchanges, loading and unloading stations etc.

https://factorioprints.com/view/-LQfMD8FftIoCf8N73Ll

4+32? OMG can you show me a picture of what your loading/unloading for that looks like? I can hardly imagine how involved the chest and belt layout would have to be to handle that. :)

[stoani96]

Wouldn't the (un)loading be pretty much the same as for a 1-4 train, except copied over 8 times? :/
I have a pretty sophisticated system for (un)loading, taking full(?) advantage of inserter-belt-time (splitting 1 blue belt to 4 stack inserters). So 4 cars give me 6 full blue belts. That would be very easy to expand to a 32 car train station...

I am at building my first real mega base. Basic infrastructure is finished and now I design my science production. I allways had problems with clogging at stations, when using multiple trains. I think I now found a system to aviod that.
But I am a bit cautious with using larger trians, as junctions and stations get huuuuge!
On the other hand.... its a MEGA base... :D

[Fel]

When your base gets to the point where you can even fill a train like that (and use it) space should already not be a concern anyway, just the smelting facilities would take a massive amount of space.

[stoani96]

Good point, but I am not used to build that big :D
How to you handle multiple mining sections delivering to the same central smelting facility? I make the stations of the smelting facility to turn on and off and each station has a "wating" area so trains going to the same station to not block other trains going to other stations