What is the scale of a finished base?

[Dorque]

Like how many green chip machines do you finish with? Red? How many refineries? I just can't picture how much screen my base will need. And I'm just talking about vanilla 17 and one rocket. No "rockets per minute". I'll get there eventually.

[HeckinBamboozled]

It can (and usually should) be bigger than you think it'll be. However, you could also finish with one of everything, if you have enough time and patience to allow that. I'd say build as many as you need, but always give yourself room to expand some. When in doubt, you can always demo and rebuild. Or move somewhere else and build bigger.

[Fel]

You can make it work with 1 full yellow belt worth of green circuits (15 items per second for a full belt so 15 assembling machine 1 per belt).
But like many things in this game, you can get away with less if you don't mind taking longer, or you can multiply that amount to ensure you are not going to be lacking intermediate items and minimize the time it takes to launch your first rocket.

If you are the type of player that doesn't like tearing down big parts of your base because you didn't allocate enough space for the expansion of your production, it is not a bad idea to allocate at least twice the space that you thought you were going to need.

In many factories, green circuit crafting is what takes the most space after mining and smelting, and what is usually underestimated because you need it for everything, and a lot of it.


In comparison, even 0.5 to 1 belt of red circuit can be more than enough for most small bases (the needs for red circuits went up by a decent amount in 0.17 with the changes to the blue science recipe, but you need less blue circuits for yellow science).

As you continue playing you will probably figure out how much of each intermediates you need for the speed in progression that you want to get, but if you want to look at what a base designed to launch a rocket as fast as possible looks like you might want to look at speedruns (yes, that is a thing, and there is quite a bit of competition there so the builds are quite refined, even if they rely on their own blueprints and robots quite a bit for construction).

[knighttemplar1960]

This play through I've been using a "1 per second" theory of base building. I leave lots of room in each section of the base and put intermediate products in the areas where they will be used the most so that delivery time is minimized. What I mean by the 1 per second is that what ever my demand for a final product is I strive to make it so that I produce 1 of what ever it is per second.

When I get a new technology that allows new products I set up its output to produce "1 per second" This means that any intermediate and base products that are required I increase to produce 1 per second to cover the demand. Any thing that I don't use frequently gets capped by limiting the number held in my storage chests.

So far its working out pretty well. I'm never out of a product that I need for expansion. It just means that I have to keep expanding every time I get a new product. Construction robots have helped out greatly. Before I had them I was running around a lot. But it was still quite fun.

[AlexMBrennan]

I usually aim for 8 belts of green science and 4 belts of red science (which is also one of the first things you want to start shipping in by rail) because 8 belts worth of circuit assemblers take up a lot of space and drain a lot of iron and copper from the main bus.

[muricaderp]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

I usually aim for 8 belts of green science and 4 belts of red science (which is also one of the first things you want to start shipping in by rail) because 8 belts worth of circuit assemblers take up a lot of space and drain a lot of iron and copper from the main bus.

8 belts? jesus how many Labs are you using at once?

[Vyndicu]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

I usually aim for 8 belts of green science and 4 belts of red science (which is also one of the first things you want to start shipping in by rail) because 8 belts worth of circuit assemblers take up a lot of space and drain a lot of iron and copper from the main bus.

Did you meant intake belts for green/red because as far I am aware red and science are consume at the same rate and should have at least close to equal output belts.

[Fel]

It depends on how you build your factory, if you have a heavy use of logistics robots and modules you will require a fairly massive amount of red circuits.
Stack inserters also require them, and you are probably going to need a lot of those too if you are going for a train-heavy and/or a module-heavy base.

[Vyndicu]

Originally posted by Fel:

It depends on how you build your factory, if you have a heavy use of logistics robots and modules you will require a fairly massive amount of red circuits.
Stack inserters also require them, and you are probably going to need a lot of those too if you are going for a train-heavy and/or a module-heavy base.

The thing is that he explicitly said belts and Green/Red Science, at least not modified, are consume at a 1 to 1 ratio. Just look at techs like automation 2 which requires 40 of each red/green. Or more likely late-game techs infinite mining tech 4 still require 2500* of each red/green and then more for repeats still at 1 to 1 ratio.

Unless he was using blue belt for red and red belt for Green science and then I would ask why mixed belts at such high SPM? That makes no sense either given that he is also concerned about space from his comment about green circuit. Given that red belt take double space vs blue belt to carry the same throughput.

Furthermore, which begs why would he produce green and red at 2 to 1 ratio assuming that those same tier belts bus are fully saturated?


P.S. As an aside I have used belt, train, and bots all extensively in various design paradigms myself. My preference goes in this order complicated production chain -> bots, constant and short range logistic -> belts, and long-distance anything goes on a train.

[Vekhio]

Another thing to look at are speed runners. They have put forth the work to figure out exactly how many of, for the most part, everything in the game you need to launch a rocket. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe Nefrums (speed runner player) on you tube has a link that takes you to a spread sheet of some type. And it has a list you might be able to download.

[Fel]

Originally posted by Vyndicu:

The thing is that he explicitly said belts and Green/Red Science <snip>

Well, since the topic was about how many green and red circuits belts you need/want, I just took the "science" as a mistake from him instead of "circuit", since it makes very little sense to produce twice as much green science compared to red science (since even when the science was not 1-1 ratio it took more red than green).

[Dorque]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

This play through I've been using a "1 per second" theory of base building.... What I mean by the 1 per second is that what ever my demand for a final product is I strive to make it so that I produce 1 of what ever it is per second...

Ooh ooh! There was a link on reddit for a calculator that I thought was just too hard core for a no-rocket-no-train-noob like me. But with an actual low target like "One per second", it becomes useful.

https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.html#data=0-17-60&rate=s&min=2&furnace=steel-furnace&items=logistic-science-pack:f:8

Green science needs 11 iron ore to 9 furnaces, 3 copper ore to 3 furnaces, 1 gear, 1 belt, 1 wire, 1 green chip, 1 inserter, and 8 actual green bottle factories.

It even adjusts for type of assembler and type of furnace. I'm sure the hardcore use it to balance out 100 assemblers, but I now have understandable ratios to use! You are 3000 smart.