Chain rail signals are still confusing and the tutorial made it worse.

[B0BSAN]

I have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ clue where too put the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rail chain signal in that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tutorial

[MoDon]

Those pissed me off to no end when I started working with trains as well. I watched several YouTube videos on the subject and most of them didn't seem to have a clue what they were talking about either. They just seemed to plop them down until they got the results they were after.

Then I stumbled upon the Katherine of Sky video on train signals. She did a very good job of explaining how they work.

I don't have a link to that particular video, but it isn't difficult to find. I would recommend you find it and give it a listen.

In actual gameplay I rarely use a chain signal. You can make incredibly sophisticated and efficient rail networks with the standard signal. I have maps that have literally launched hundreds of rockets without a chain signal to be found anywhere.

Just saying.

[AlexMBrennan]

1. Place regular signals at the exit of the blocks (where it's OK for them to stop).
2. Place chain signals everywhere else (where you don't want trains to stop).

If you are doing the tutorial, keep in mind that removing regular signals is an option.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1250791012
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1250885519

[Nailfoot]

As Alex stated, there is one SIMPLE rule for chain signals. Repeat this is your head over and over and over and over:

"Chain signals BEFORE and THROUGHOUT every intersection! Regular signals at the EXIT to every intersection!"

You will use many more chain signals than regular signals unless you purposely build to avoid intersections. And, before rail veterans reply, I know there are plenty of exceptions to this rule. I am a rail verteran myself, but this rule is a noobie's mantra.

REPEAT THE RULE!

"Chain signals BEFORE and THROUGHOUT every intersection! Regular signals at the EXIT to every intersection!"


If you have two intersections close together, it may be better to treat both of them as one large intersection, following the RULE.

[B0BSAN]

thank you

[TSP]

What Nailfoot says is true. That rule system will work very well for new players. Once you feel confident in your train building and signal setups following that rule (And finally, understanding WHY that rule works), you may want to look into more complex ways to optimize rails and signals.

This rule will work for you well into the rocket launch phase on normal settings (i.e. no tech costs x10/20 or expensive modes, etc)

Once you've progressed past that and are looking for a challenge, setting up a few hundreds of trains (And a factory that demands it!) and minimizing congestion is the next step to becoming a veteran (Both in rails and the game itself)

[Vekhio]

Nope. Still confusing

[TSP]

One of the clearer examples of why chain signals are useful is for making a train stacker (Or parking lot - for those using rubber wheels in daily lives).

I can set something up that will make it really clear, but I'm sure there's 200 other videos and guides out there that explain it.

[Vekhio]

This and circuits are the worst.

I've played this game for almost 900 hrs now about 100 of that trying to figure out how to get circuits to work and 50 hrs or so trying to understand the need or use for chain signals. Ive watched countless tutorials and Im certain I've even watched the videos KOS has made as mentioned above. Because she has multiple videos that deal with train rails and such. I still don't have a clue why they work or what chain signals are for. The "Parking lot" I cant get to work. I'll even pause videos and my set up is exactly the same. I'll even have my wife come over and triple check it for me. The results, no trains go to the stacker and avoid the only train stop the stacker is connected to or crash and burn.

The closest I've come to understanding ciruits was with Nilaus. I stopped because I realised I was just copying and not understanding. I couldn't figure out how to implement what he was doing verses what I was doing. He was just placing things around letting us all know why he was doing the circuits but not how they worked.

FYI. I work like 55 - 60 hrs a week so to put about 100 hrs to try to understand this was like 3 - 4 months of research. So frustraiting. I plead that if anyone would take the time and put a series together spacifically for these two concepts. I dont believe tutorials exist that would take a person from not even knowing this exists to complete expert and could create their own tutorial.

[PC_CHEF]

Originally posted by Krull:

This and circuits are the worst.

I've played this game for almost 900 hrs now about 100 of that trying to figure out how to get circuits to work and 50 hrs or so trying to understand the need or use for chain signals. Ive watched countless tutorials and Im certain I've even watched the videos KOS has made as mentioned above. Because she has multiple videos that deal with train rails and such. I still don't have a clue why they work or what chain signals are for. The "Parking lot" I cant get to work. I'll even pause videos and my set up is exactly the same. I'll even have my wife come over and triple check it for me. The results, no trains go to the stacker and avoid the only train stop the stacker is connected to or crash and burn.

The closest I've come to understanding ciruits was with Nilaus. I stopped because I realised I was just copying and not understanding. I couldn't figure out how to implement what he was doing verses what I was doing. He was just placing things around letting us all know why he was doing the circuits but not how they worked.

FYI. I work like 55 - 60 hrs a week so to put about 100 hrs to try to understand this was like 3 - 4 months of research. So frustraiting. I plead that if anyone would take the time and put a series together spacifically for these two concepts. I dont believe tutorials exist that would take a person from not even knowing this exists to complete expert and could create their own tutorial.

Standard Rail Signals - Check to see if the NEXT signal is clear (ok to continue forward)

Chain Rail Signals - Check TWO signals ahead to see if its clear (Prevents lock up at intersections)

[AlexMBrennan]

and 50 hrs or so trying to understand the need or use for chain signals.

Factorio trains work on a "block" level: only one train can occupy a given block, and all railway tiles not separated by a signal belong to the same block.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1250935194
As a result, it is possible for trains to block other trains from moving even if their paths do not intersect. This image an example of that - both red trains could move at the same time without crashing, but because the intersection is a single block one of the red trains will have to wait.
Thus, placing more signals will reduce the number of trains waiting at intersections.

Chain signals are needed because there usually are bottlenecks where you don't want trains to stop (e.g. in a RL parking lot you want cars to stop in the designated parking spots instead of the exit lane where one stopped car can stop hundreds of other vehicles from moving).

Trains can only pass a chain signal if the exit the train wants to take is clear; in the above example both of the red trains are able to exit the intersection and are thus allowed to enter the intersection (chain signal turns green), while the blue train isn't able to exit the intersection and will thus have to wait at the signal (chain signal turns red).
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1250885519
This optimizes throughput - all the trains that can move without causing traffic jams will move, and the rest will wait in their designated waiting spot.

[TSP]

Hey Krull, if you want, you could host your game and I could join and show you? I'll even come on discord for you if you want to talk instead of type. I'm also pretty good with circuits, though never actually went and created creative things like a clock, pong, or a music player. I use circuits basically to balance oil and trains if needed.

If you want to make absolutely 100% sure you will understand how all this works, I recommend talking over discord but it isn't required, typing will just take longer. Just give me a poke if you want to give it a shot. I'm online for the next 3 hours (Feel free to friend me etc) and tomorrow until ~5 PM CET.

[Vekhio]

No thanks. I'm at the point where personally I don't want to figure it out anymore. I just mentioned what I did because I know shy people still exist. If I understood I would make the series. It doesn't make sense for me and I've moved on. Sorry I just jumped on the band wagon. I use standard signals and that works well enough for me. I'll never use circuits either.

[TSP]

Well, don't say the community doesn't try to help people out!

[MoDon]

You won't be able to avoid circuits and get a very large factory going. You don't need much, but without at least a little there will be things like oil processing that will get stalled.

[Qlimax]

one way to think of it is that chain signals look ahead for green rail signals and tell the train which path is best to take