normal magazine vs ap round

[narf03]

I am wondering if ap round do more than 2x damage of normal magazine when biters has resistance ? Cause if they dont, i think it doesnt make sense to use ap round on gun turrets, instead of supply them with ap round, better supply them with normal magazine but double the amount of gun turrets, ap round cost more than 2x of normal magazine while they just do like 60% more damage.

[Killcreek2]

AP rounds do much more damage to armoured targets [med/big/behemoth biters], than normal rounds. This is due to the damage resistance [armour] of the biters.

So: yes, AP rounds are worth using once you pass the early game stage.

[narf03]

resistance is a fixed value instead of certain percent ?

[Warlord]

Biter resistance is made up of two numbers: A percent reduction, and a flat number reduction. Let's start by looking at the flat number. Let's say a biter has 5 resistance and a bullet does 10 damage. That would result in 5 damage per hit, for a 50% reduction in damage. If you use AP bullets that are double (numbers pulled out of the air here) that, or 20, then the same biter would take 15 damage, for a reduction of 25%. This means that doubling your damage will more than triple the amount the biter takes. This is even bigger when the biter has more resistance. A big biter that may have (for instance) 10 armor, would take 1/2 HP from a normal bullet, while still taking 10 damage from an AP round. That is 20 times as much!

Well, there are also percentage reductions, but they apply simply after the decrease is determined. These won't make normal VS AP rounds any better or worse, so you can pretty much ignore them.

The point is, having a bigger up-front damage will help you bypass more of their armor, dealing more damage. Putting twice as many turrets but regular bullets will eventually run up against high armor enemies and very little damage is dealt.

Additionally, % increases in bullet damage favor AP rounds. You may go from 10 to 20 damage with 100% more bullet damage, but AP will go from 20 to 40, thus gaining twice as much power as a normal bullet.

[Killcreek2]

It is both, see this wiki page for the numbers ~ https://wiki.factorio.com/index.php?title=Enemies

For example, a Big Biter has "physical resistance 8/10%". Which means incoming damage is first reduced by a flat 8, then the result is reduced by another 10%.
Assuming you have some tech upgrades so that your gun turrets using regular bullets have damage output = 18 [phys], then:

(18 - 8) -10% = 9 effective damage dealt.

[narf03]

ok that mean i do not need to rush ap round at the beginning as biters dont have resistance yet ? but later in the game ap round would do better and better compare to normal magazine ?

[Killcreek2]

Originally posted by jkwong01:

ok that mean i do not need to rush ap round at the beginning as biters dont have resistance yet ? but later in the game ap round would do better and better compare to normal magazine ?

Exactly right. Once you see medium biters, it is probably time to swap to AP.

[Warlord]

Originally posted by Killcreek2:

Originally posted by jkwong01:

ok that mean i do not need to rush ap round at the beginning as biters dont have resistance yet ? but later in the game ap round would do better and better compare to normal magazine ?

Exactly right. Once you see medium biters, it is probably time to swap to AP.

Hmmm... Yellow ammo is good for plain tan biters. Red biters need AP (red) or regular shotgun (red) ammo. Blue Biters need armor piercing shotgun ammo (blue). Behemoth (green) biters need Uranium (green) ammo/tank rounds.

huh.

[MisterSpock]

Gold ammo is op.

Stupid pay 2 win.

[narf03]

Originally posted by MisterSpock:

Gold ammo is op.

Stupid pay 2 win.

better than pay to lose.

[The_Mell]

Originally posted by jkwong01:

ok that mean i do not need to rush ap round at the beginning as biters dont have resistance yet ? but later in the game ap round would do better and better compare to normal magazine ?

Normal rounds combined with some tech upgrades to them and to towers can last very long.
I even don't build walls.

Walls and AP are for me options after biters make it to turrets and damage them.

[bendezium2003]

AP rounds do an additional Piercing Damage that is not affected by Normal Damage resistances, IIRC (unless that is an add by Bob's).

[Warlord]

Originally posted by bendezium2003:

AP rounds do an additional Piercing Damage that is not affected by Normal Damage resistances, IIRC (unless that is an add by Bob's).

No, base game they are just stronger bullets. While they do more damage to higher armor enemies, it is simply because of the way flat armor reduction is overwhelmed by having a stronger bullet.

[stlyau]

Does this really matter when you've gotta make the Piercing Rounds anyways for the Military Science Packs? You'll already be making them for various Military technologies, like any military damage or speed upgrade or armor equipment or weapon. Unless you've gone completely passive biters (which by your post, you haven't), you're gonna be making the Piercing anyways and the Piercing are used in the Uranium Rounds.

[narf03]

Originally posted by stlyau:

Does this really matter when you've gotta make the Piercing Rounds anyways for the Military Science Packs? You'll already be making them for various Military technologies, like any military damage or speed upgrade or armor equipment or weapon. Unless you've gone completely passive biters (which by your post, you haven't), you're gonna be making the Piercing anyways and the Piercing are used in the Uranium Rounds.

yes, it matters, the game is about efficiency, if you can kill something with 1.25 iron, its consider not wise to use 1.26.

[AlexMBrennan]

but double the amount of gun turrets

I don't think that this would work well against behemoth spitters attacking your turrets from maximum range. I am not entirely sure that the resources you save on ammo will make up for the extra turrets/bots you will lose by dragging out engagements.