What is better for ups

[Radioactive Panda]

First I would like to say that I'm using bots for everything. And that my base is beltless. I'm soon transitioning to logistic for mining too.


The question is what is better for ups. Having separate areas for different things? (Smelting area, green circuits. Etc) or bring ores into one area and having everything together? I'm thinking having separate things are better but is unsure.

[MisterSpock]

I personally was questioning how your base look.

But never thought about that.

[Radioactive Panda]

Originally posted by MisterSpock:

I personally was questioning how your base look.

But never thought about that.

Skynet.

ATM it's more chaotic since I'm reorganizing. But soon I'll be reorganizing again due to needing more iron/copper. 5 full blue belt ore isn't enough.

[Lawlzer]

Having seperate outposts for everything- Having an outpost for iron ore, having an outpost for smelting, having an outpost for green circuits.. Etc. Bots have to travel less = more UPS

[Tiger]

Definetly do not have one big botnetwork, it will make ups drop considerably, use trains to transport stuff between the different networks, or if its really small you could use a between network connection using requester chests and an inserter going to a passive or active chest.

BTW Radioactive panda, if you are at the point that you are 5 blue belt of ore, i think you are way overdue for some trains or bot based systems for ore. If i am honest when i play, the first thing to be made bot based and train delivered is my make every thing and my ore outposts.

[Radioactive Panda]

Originally posted by Lawlzer:

Having seperate outposts for everything- Having an outpost for iron ore, having an outpost for smelting, having an outpost for green circuits.. Etc. Bots have to travel less = more UPS

But on a main base bots don't have to travel very far. And I wonder about if bots go directly from (example) furnace to the factory skipping the storage. While with trains you are forced to use storage at least once.

[Radioactive Panda]

Originally posted by Tiger:

Definetly do not have one big botnetwork, it will make ups drop considerably, use trains to transport stuff between the different networks, or if its really small you could use a between network connection using requester chests and an inserter going to a passive or active chest.

BTW Radioactive panda, if you are at the point that you are 5 blue belt of ore, i think you are way overdue for some trains or bot based systems for ore. If i am honest when i play, the first thing to be made bot based and train delivered is my make every thing and my ore outposts.

Lol yeah. It's way overdue. I set the vein to rich so I didn't need to expand much to reach this. Now that i have been trying for one rocket per minute along with science pack I found that it can't keep up. And the network isn't that big since it's beaconed so everything is in a relatively small area. The only time I start having drops is when over 30k bots are up at once.

I have around 130k logistic bots in reserve so I can definitely do outpost or whatever.

[Stryke(r)]

Well i could imagine that a single "belt to transport them all" might be the best for UPS (and I'm talking about the "car production line" setup - basically everything in line and use the cars as containers - single expressbelt can carry up to 16000 units per sec (assuming a stacksize of 100)) - however it would require some fiddeling with circuit network, since a moving car doesn't get unloaded by inserters while moving (additionally i don't really know how collision affects UPS, but i can imagine it being better than lots and lots of bots, belts or undergroundies...)

[Tiger]

Originally posted by Radioactive Panda:

Originally posted by Lawlzer:

Having seperate outposts for everything- Having an outpost for iron ore, having an outpost for smelting, having an outpost for green circuits.. Etc. Bots have to travel less = more UPS

But on a main base bots don't have to travel very far. And I wonder about if bots go directly from (example) furnace to the factory skipping the storage. While with trains you are forced to use storage at least once.

if you direct imput and have no storage then either you have to make the most perfect base ever to stop if just failing to work properly. or you will drop ups from all those bots so hard you will wish you had done it more efficient :)

ups drops are much harder to deal with in multiplayer but man they are horrific to deal with, most of what i have read or seen seems to be that if you have over about 4k bots in the same small network you start to see issues, and bots are very bad for transporting over distance because of charging, keep the base sections small and seperate. If for instance you have to transfer somthing at close range, the bots can do multiple trips on 1 charge, if you ask them to take somthing a great distance they would need large clusters of charging stations all over the place. Trains are much more efficient for transporting over distance.

and by travel far im talking about a screens length as the average max journey for any of my bots, less if i can get away with it.

when you talk about skipping storage do you mean the unloading and loading at stations? because its a great way to balance your builds and make sure it has enough to run your builds.
technically even using bots it has storage at both ends, yes it adds more but its only for a very short period of time, some of my builds its just seconds before a bot comes to take it to be processed in some way.

[Tiger]

Originally posted by Stryke(r):

Well i could imagine that a single "belt to transport them all" might be the best for UPS (and I'm talking about the "car production line" setup - basically everything in line and use the cars as containers - single expressbelt can carry up to 16000 units per sec (assuming a stacksize of 100)) - however it would require some fiddeling with circuit network, since a moving car doesn't get unloaded by inserters while moving (additionally i don't really know how collision affects UPS, but i can imagine it being better than lots and lots of bots, belts or undergroundies...)

I am so confused by this that im not sure where to start!

cars as containers ?
16000 units per second?
and as most things in factorio need multiple items to make any thing im not sure how a single belt would even function.

[Radioactive Panda]

Originally posted by Tiger:

Originally posted by Radioactive Panda:

But on a main base bots don't have to travel very far. And I wonder about if bots go directly from (example) furnace to the factory skipping the storage. While with trains you are forced to use storage at least once.

if you direct imput and have no storage then either you have to make the most perfect base ever to stop if just failing to work properly. or you will drop ups from all those bots so hard you will wish you had done it more efficient :)

ups drops are much harder to deal with in multiplayer but man they are horrific to deal with, most of what i have read or seen seems to be that if you have over about 4k bots in the same small network you start to see issues, and bots are very bad for transporting over distance because of charging, keep the base sections small and seperate. If for instance you have to transfer somthing at close range, the bots can do multiple trips on 1 charge, if you ask them to take somthing a great distance they would need large clusters of charging stations all over the place. Trains are much more efficient for transporting over distance.

and by travel far im talking about a screens length as the average max journey for any of my bots, less if i can get away with it.

when you talk about skipping storage do you mean the unloading and loading at stations? because its a great way to balance your builds and make sure it has enough to run your builds.
technically even using bots it has storage at both ends, yes it adds more but its only for a very short period of time, some of my builds its just seconds before a bot comes to take it to be processed in some way.

I see. Then my network is not small :p my smelting are is huge.

[Tiger]

my megabase smelter does about 25k per minute and i have 3 of those stacked so about 75k, thats pretty big in terms of capacity, but its 3 distinct bot networks and each run independantly, thats for bot travel efficiency and so better ups, each have about 800 to 1000 bots each.

p.s. thats just for iron, copper is the same too

[Radioactive Panda]

Originally posted by Tiger:

my megabase smelter does about 25k per minute and i have 3 of those stacked so about 75k, thats pretty big in terms of capacity, but its 3 distinct bot networks and each run independantly, thats for bot travel efficiency and so better ups, each have about 800 to 1000 bots each.

p.s. thats just for iron, copper is the same too

My smelter is a smart smelter so iron/copper/etc is all in one area. I think my output was around 50k per minute (it turns on and off previously) I usually had 4K bots around with 12k when unloading.

[Stryke(r)]

Originally posted by Tiger:

I am so confused by this that im not sure where to start!

cars as containers ?
16000 units per second?
and as most things in factorio need multiple items to make any thing im not sure how a single belt would even function.

Well you put the car on the belt - since it has collision it gets moved by the belt, when you stop the car (via circuit network) only for a split second, inserters and insert and pull form the cars storage (which is 80 slots x 100 units per stack x2 cars per second on an express belt) - its very fiddely, but it should work (you can unload different materials at the same times, so you basically build your entire factory along this one belt - e.g. copper wires - which you usually don't belt: one inserter pulls a copper plate form the car, while 2 other inserters insert the wires on the after produced - you can simply unload it into the next car on the belt, which you want to compress with cars as much as possible.)

I'm just trying to sell this idea tbh.

[Tiger]

Originally posted by Stryke(r):

Originally posted by Tiger:

I am so confused by this that im not sure where to start!

cars as containers ?
16000 units per second?
and as most things in factorio need multiple items to make any thing im not sure how a single belt would even function.

Well you put the car on the belt - since it has collision it gets moved by the belt, when you stop the car (via circuit network) only for a split second, inserters and insert and pull form the cars storage (which is 80 slots x 100 units per stack x2 cars per second on an express belt) - its very fiddely, but it should work (you can unload different materials at the same times, so you basically build your entire factory along this one belt - e.g. copper wires - which you usually don't belt: one inserter pulls a copper plate form the car, while 2 other inserters insert the wires on the after produced - you can simply unload it into the next car on the belt, which you want to compress with cars as much as possible.)

urm ok but that sort of thing works for a factory that makes a single item that outputs from that belt, and would have multiple of these belts going around making lots of them in parralel, like a car factory.

not sure this would ever work for factorio as it has so many different things, you would need a seperate belt for every item in the game, and then pull off that belt to another with an assembler or smelter or what ever in the middle to do the processing, if i under stand the concept right.

[Harry]

Originally posted by Tiger:

Originally posted by Stryke(r):

Well you put the car on the belt - since it has collision it gets moved by the belt, when you stop the car (via circuit network) only for a split second, inserters and insert and pull form the cars storage (which is 80 slots x 100 units per stack x2 cars per second on an express belt) - its very fiddely, but it should work (you can unload different materials at the same times, so you basically build your entire factory along this one belt - e.g. copper wires - which you usually don't belt: one inserter pulls a copper plate form the car, while 2 other inserters insert the wires on the after produced - you can simply unload it into the next car on the belt, which you want to compress with cars as much as possible.)

urm ok but that sort of thing works for a factory that makes a single item that outputs from that belt, and would have multiple of these belts going around making lots of them in parralel, like a car factory.

not sure this would ever work for factorio as it has so many different things, you would need a seperate belt for every item in the game, and then pull off that belt to another with an assembler or smelter or what ever in the middle to do the processing, if i under stand the concept right.

Can't we just set some filters for the cars inventory like we do it with the trains? Then it shouldn't be a problem to have multiple items per car.