Am I too fixated on having a automated huge defense? (Gun turrets)

[alexddunbar]

My current method for defese is to have one factory producting armor piercing rounds into a bin. The I use two long inserters to pass it between turrets. I chain it so that each time a magazine is used it pulls it from other areas that are not under attack. If a magazine is passing through and the turret needs it, it will actually use it (or at least I think I saw this). For example if a turret is at 0 magazines because it passed it down the line and is under attack the second a magazine is passed it starts firing. I'm pretty sure I saw this. This way I never need to worry about my turrets running out of magazines... ever really. I also have tried just chaining more long inserters to space out the turrets more If I really don't think there is a treat. I like this because I can spider web out where ever I feel I need to. My first idea was to use a closed loop belt with ammuntion on it but that had lots of problems. This way I can simply have inserters come off in a different direction if I want to, or even have the chain end where ever I need it to. Is this overkill?

[alexddunbar]

PS. I know laser turrets are better over all. I use them when I upgrade to where I can but before that I use gun turrets so that's why I'm asking.

[Lawlzer]

Originally posted by alexddunbar:

PS. I know laser turrets are better over all. I use them when I upgrade to where I can but before that I use gun turrets so that's why I'm asking.

Yeah, that's overkill =P
I just place 3-5 gun turrets early game, then usually before I get laser (like, soon before) I just place 3 turret sin a row and a lot of those (say maybe, 5-10 sets of those per outpost) and just manually fill them. If you take a long time to get laser turrets, maybe it's worth it, but for me I get them soon enough it's not a pain to manually fill them.

[Morphic]

IMO, I find Gun Turrets much better than Laser Turrets. They tend to have higher DPS, don't cause Power Spikes and with Uranium Ammo are pretty strong.

The major thing with Lasers is that they are "set it and forget it" and most Biters don't have high laser/energy resistence.

That said; IMO, I wouldn't be setting up automated ammo dispenser via "Inserter swapping" like you describe. I've run into situations where that has screwed me over when Turrets burn through whatever reserves they have on em and swapping 1 mag at a time makes em burn it and be sitting there out of ammo.

While it is a pain to set up initially, a Belt line feeding ammo along the wall with Inserters > Turret is often better in the long run; or in highly contested zones. Lately I've been using Belt Line > Inserter > Wooden Chest restricted to hold 2 stacks > Inserter > Turret since it's easier to swap in Bot based supply.

Overall though, unless you are on Deathworld settings, I tend to feel Ammo Belt line supply for Turrets is a waste of time/space/resources. You shouldn't really need to do that unless you've been ignoring Biters. I typically set up a few Turrets along sections the Biters would attack and manually fill a Chest > Inserter > Turret for each one or just make a Chest > Inserter > Belt > Inserter > Turret(s). Then when I leave for a Biter Nest raid I check the Chest(s) if they need Ammo and either refill it or just head out and blow stuff up.

TLDR: IMO, being proactive towards destroying Biter nests is much better than having sprawling defensive lines and automated Gun Turret supply lines. Early game Heavy Armor and Shotgun only takes ~1 hour to tech to and is super effective against Biter Nests. Later on the Car + AP ammo is great; if you are good at driving. Otherwise just grab a Rocket Launcher and 2-shot Nests until you get a Tank and use HE Shells. Deathworld on the other hand is much different.

[alexddunbar]

Here are the draw backs to belt feed magazines.

1) It needs to be a loop. This can be very anoying. Using inserters it can (like I said) go where it needs to go and I don't care about coming back. It's like AC vs DC current. It's also easy to split off with new line of turrets without mergeing belts
2) I don't have tons of magazines on a belt. I only have 3 extra magazines in the system per turret.

[Nailfoot]

Originally posted by alexddunbar:

Here are the draw backs to belt feed magazines.

1) It needs to be a loop. This can be very anoying. Using inserters it can (like I said) go where it needs to go and I don't care about coming back. It's like AC vs DC current. It's also easy to split off with new line of turrets without mergeing belts
2) I don't have tons of magazines on a belt. I only have 3 extra magazines in the system per turret.

I feel, as has been mentioned, that gun turrets are used so minimally that they are not worth the effort of setting up support logistics for. Unless you want the achievement for that. When I am using turrets in the beginning, I load them with about 20 magazines each and the only ones that ever need a refill are the ones that happen to be in the path of the biters.

You can get by on 20-25 gun turrets max in most cases before you have lasers. The original 25 gun turrets can stick around as a bacxkup defence but the lasers are so much easier to manage.

In the time it takes to have enopugh gun turrets to NEED a logistic solution for them, you could have laser turrets pretty easily.

[narf03]

better over produce ammo, the factory that produce ammo should not be in the middle of your base. then use belt to deliver the ammo, use spliter belt wisely to equally distribute your ammo. its easier this way as you can easily increase your ammo production and uses the same path for distribution.

[Lawlzer]

Originally posted by jkwong01:

better over produce ammo, the factory that produce ammo should not be in the middle of your base. then use belt to deliver the ammo, use spliter belt wisely to equally distribute your ammo. its easier this way as you can easily increase your ammo production and uses the same path for distribution.

I understand your point, but why would you ever actually NEED to do this? I never see a point where I'd need THAT much ammo, unless I was like, making a rocket without laser turrets, in which that'd definitely help.. But from a normal perspective, why?

[Morphic]

Originally posted by alexddunbar:

Here are the draw backs to belt feed magazines.

1) It needs to be a loop. This can be very anoying. Using inserters it can (like I said) go where it needs to go and I don't care about coming back. It's like AC vs DC current. It's also easy to split off with new line of turrets without mergeing belts

Which is why you make a Buffer Chest for that zone and set up a local belt line. Chest > Inserter > Belt line > Inserter(s) > Turret(s).

You wouldn't need to loop it as it'd be a straight shot along your Turret line. Again; you should only really need 5-10 Turrets max for a contested zone. If you are using way more than that; then you must be playing on Deathworld or ignored the Biters. At which point Bot Supplied Turrets or Laser Turrets are significantly better.

Originally posted by alexddunbar:

2) I don't have tons of magazines on a belt. I only have 3 extra magazines in the system per turret.

Which, as I said, is going to bite you when the Attack Groups get strong or very large. A small swarm(or a few Large+ level) can easily overtake ~10 Turrets worth of 1 Mag ammo and still have survivors. Meanwhile your Turrets will be idling because they blew through their limited ammo. Alternatively you'll run into a situation where only 1 Turret is firing because it is using that 1 Mag; which means the others are idling and not helping.

So unless you are talking stacks; whereby the magazine count is actually 100+ and the Turrets are just passing that stack between each other ... making local Belt Lines or just using Laser Turrets is much better, efficiency wise.

TLDR: But hey, whatever works for you. If you aren't having an issue using a setup like you did, then it doesn't really matter whether it's Overkill or not. I prefer making local Belt lines via a Chest since I typically have a Steel Chest Buffer of AP ammo coming off my Military Science line. I don't ever need a dedicated production line or belt supply line for my turrets unless I'm on a Deathworld; I just need to remember to fill their Chests lol. (speaking of which I wonder if I can make a Siren using speakers when the chest is low...)

[Ruges]

Originally posted by alexddunbar:

1) It needs to be a loop.

Why does it need to be in a loop? you can hae it dead end you can have it dead end where ever you want. you can use splitters to have it spider as much as you want.

There are only two advantages to an inserter chained system vs a belt feed system. No xtra stock laying around. takes up less space.

However there are huge disadvantages to an inserter based system. Theres no stock laying around. meaning if production is hampered, your defenses wont be able to defend. Your also limited to the consumption of a single inserter for your entire defense line. Its not an issue early when the enemy is weak. but when they get stronger and you get 10 turrets constantly shooting. its going to result in turrets going dry. Your front line is also lmited to 1 in 4 tiles or 2 in 4 tiles, and in some sections you need a two layer thick defense.

And the less space taken up is going to be offset by the higher power consumption. It takes 1 solar panel to run 3 long inserters. Where normally if you had 500 turrets in a line. and 10 of there where shooting. It would normally only take 10 inserters to feed them. But now you have to chain them down the entire line consuming 500 inserters worth of power. IE 3 solar panels vrs 150 solar panels.

Myself I usually start the game with maunally fed. Then I move to belt fed over sections(with the belt being fed by chests that are manually fed. Moving to a full belt system. evenually swaping out to lasers. And finally in the trouble spots adding in turrets as a secound layer that are supplied by short belts feed by requestor chests.