Combinator design for reactor fueling

[Templar]

Anyone out there have a design for making a system that will only insert one rod of fuel into a reactor at a time on a condition of having below some amount of steam in reserve? I suck with combinators and whatnot.

I would also accept (and really appreaciate and like better honestly) someone explaining to me how to build such a thing.

[Setharial]

You might wanna look at this https://wiki.factorio.com/Tutorial:Combinator_Tutorial#Set.2FReset_Latching_Switch

it explaines the exact thing you want to use in an example made with oil that can be simply converted to a steam version.

[Coffee Daemon]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/427520/discussions/0/2741975115064633812/

Not sure if this is the same thing but also good.

[AlexMBrennan]

I think you will need 4 combinators: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=933514877

[Teh Freek]

My design uses an intermediate chest with the inserter stack size set to 1. I move the fuel cell from the chest to the reactor when the steam drops below a certain level (1k in a single tank for my 2-reactor, 8 storage tank setup), and I move a fresh fuel cell into the chest when the steam rises above a certain level (10k).

[Killcreek2]

Here is a pic of my control setup for a pulse reactor, including settings: http://i.imgur.com/f92gNVx.png

Uses 1 "steam low" trigger combi, and 1x "is empty?" memory latch per reactor core.
Red wire at the bottom is the steam input, connected to a tank in the steam buffer offscreen. Green wire is the sync-control signal from the steam low trigger. All inserters are set to "stack size override: 1".

Standard Features:
It loads fuel only when reactor core is empty, loads only 1 fuel pod into each core at a time, loads all reactor cores at same time for max neighbour bonus, & starts a synchronised fuel burn automagically when the steam buffer gets low [under 40%].

How it works [after priming each core with 1 fuel pod to first start it up]:
> "Is empty?" latch is cleared [empty=0, core has a fuel pod].
> Fuel burn finishes, 1 empty fuel cell is taken out which sends a 1 "empty fuel pod" signal into the memory latch and is stored in there [empty=1, no fuel].
> Input inserter has input signal of 1 [from the latch], but does *not* activate as it is waiting for a signal more than 1 [empty *and* need more steam].
> Steam buffer gets low, trigger combinator sends 1 "empty fuel pod" signal to the input inserter: This "tops-up" the latch signal to =2, so the inserter wakes up & grabs a fuel pod. It immediately sends a "full pod" signal into the memory latch, clearing it for next cycle [empty=0, has fuel].
> Input inserter now has 1 "empty pod" signal from the low steam, but *not* from the latch, so goes back to sleep. Everything is now reset for the next cycle.

[GMC]

Here's a combinator-based solution. It's more complex than using a chest, but it can be retro-fitted to a setup which feeds fuel cells directly from a belt.

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The amount of steam in the tanks is compared against low and high levels (L and H) set by a constant combinator. The outputs are used to start and stop an item moving on a belt to generate a brief pulse at the point that the steam level drops below L (note that the belt is read in hold mode rather than pulse mode; single-tick pulses don't work reliably due to the way that the circuit network is implemented).

Each inserter is connected to a S-R latch (for a multi-reactor setup, the inserter and latch needs to be duplicated for each reactor). The inserter is enabled on one output of the latch. The latch is set from the pulse from the steam tanks, and reset on the inserter's hand contents (again, in hold mode rather than pulse mode) being non-empty. This ensures that a single fuel cell is fed each time the steam level drops.

Like many of the other solutions I've seen, this setup won't handle the case where power demand exceeds supply. It relies upon the steam level recovering in order to reset the logic for the next cycle. If the steam level drops and remains low, it won't insert another cell. That could be avoided by taking the reset trigger from one of the inserters which removes spent fuel cells.

[Templar]

I hope this thread helps someone out. After some testing I am now personally terrified to use a solution like this because if it have a brown out I will lose all power and have to go back to an older save. I'm currently using water barrels to supply my nuke plants so if the power gets low the whole thing just cascades into oblivion. Due to demands changing and complex calcs to get it right it seems like I could spend a bunch of time testing just to have it all change.... it's a pain.

[PC_CHEF]

Why not just connect the input and output inserters? Everytime the output inserter pulls a used nuclear cell the input pulls a new one in. The nuclear reactor consumes the fuel continuously anyway, after 200s you'll need a new one.

[timmcd1985]

I dont wanna hijack the thread but i have a question. Is there a reason for only wanting one fuel cell in a reactor at a time? why not just put a box next to it and let it have one when it needs it? Is there a way to "waste" the fuel cell, or not use it to its full potential?

[Ame]

Originally posted by timmcd1985:

I dont wanna hijack the thread but i have a question. Is there a reason for only wanting one fuel cell in a reactor at a time? why not just put a box next to it and let it have one when it needs it? Is there a way to "waste" the fuel cell, or not use it to its full potential?

In a word, yes. The reactors each use one fuel cell every 200 seconds, period. They don't throttle themselves down like boiler+steam engine setups, they go full output regardless of usage. That's why you see all of these seemingly overcomplicated setups; people don't want to waste the fuel cells since U235 is so uncommon until you have kovarex processing set up.

[Templar]

Originally posted by PC_CHEF:

Why not just connect the input and output inserters? Everytime the output inserter pulls a used nuclear cell the input pulls a new one in. The nuclear reactor consumes the fuel continuously anyway, after 200s you'll need a new one.

I'm not worried about just inserting 1 cell at once. What the point of such a set up would be is to store any excess steam in the tanks and then use that in the turbines for a short period of time with no cell in the reactor. The problem is balancing this out properly so you have no loss of power output no matter how much power you need.

[timmcd1985]

Originally posted by Templar:

Originally posted by PC_CHEF:

Why not just connect the input and output inserters? Everytime the output inserter pulls a used nuclear cell the input pulls a new one in. The nuclear reactor consumes the fuel continuously anyway, after 200s you'll need a new one.

I'm not worried about just inserting 1 cell at once. What the point of such a set up would be is to store any excess steam in the tanks and then use that in the turbines for a short period of time with no cell in the reactor. The problem is balancing this out properly so you have no loss of power output no matter how much power you need.

Ahh ok i see, that makes sense. Get more bang for your buck. I just wasnt seeing the point because as AME said, the reactors run on a fuel cell for 200 secs regardless. But since i also use tanks for backup steam maybe i should look into such a setup.

Edit: I thought of a new question. How much extra time do you get from a single fuel cell doing it this way?

[Templar]

Originally posted by timmcd1985:

Originally posted by Templar:

I'm not worried about just inserting 1 cell at once. What the point of such a set up would be is to store any excess steam in the tanks and then use that in the turbines for a short period of time with no cell in the reactor. The problem is balancing this out properly so you have no loss of power output no matter how much power you need.

Ahh ok i see, that makes sense. Get more bang for your buck. I just wasnt seeing the point because as AME said, the reactors run on a fuel cell for 200 secs regardless. But since i also use tanks for backup steam maybe i should look into such a setup.

Edit: I thought of a new question. How much extra time do you get from a single fuel cell doing it this way?

It depends on your power draw and reactor design so there is no way to say for sure.

[Fury6]

Throwing my solution into the fray :). Four combinators is all you need, no matter how many reactors you have. Five if you want to load directly from belts. An extra one if you want to be able to switch the fuel cycle on/off manually as I do in this blueprint. The constant combinator is the manual off/reset switch. Switch it on to stop & reset the fuel cycle counter, switch it off to let the cycle run automatically.

You need enough steam storage to take up a full fuel-cycle production (1M units for a four-reactor setup) + whatever safety buffer you decide on.

It doesn't check against a high level, since that's essentially pointless. The only reason you have steam storage is to take up whatever steam over-production might occur during an active fuel-cycle so you don't waste that energy. If your overproduction overtakes the low buffer (ie your power demand is lower than the total reactor production) then the fuel cycle stops and you run off the excess steam until the buffer is depleted (which then kicks off the next fuel cycle). Producing steam *just* to fill up tanks is senseless.


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

[GMC]

Originally posted by Templar:

I hope this thread helps someone out. After some testing I am now personally terrified to use a solution like this because if it have a brown out I will lose all power and have to go back to an older save.

If you lose power, you can just insert fuel cells into the reactors by hand to bootstrap the process. It's certainly easier than having to hand-feed coal into boilers, simply because of the quantities involved.

Originally posted by Ame:

That's why you see all of these seemingly overcomplicated setups; people don't want to waste the fuel cells since U235 is so uncommon until you have kovarex processing set up.

Actually, I think these setups are more a case of optimisation for its own sake rather than any practical need to conserve resources. Four reactors running constantly require 1152 uranium ore per hour, which is 20% more than the output of a single electric mining drill with no productivity bonus. Which is almost nothing. You don't even need to automate supply; you can drive a car out to the uranium patch once a day to top up the acid and collect mined ore (or the uranium, if you place the centrifuge at the mine rather than at the power station). You're more likely to be bottlenecked on the supply of water than on uranium.