Workbench cheese and how to fix it

[CombatWombat]

Workbenches are the easiest thing to make. And you can trivialize the whole game with it.

- Sneak in
- Place workbench and connected it. If you want to be fancy connect a battery
- Leave
- Come back to find no enemies.
- Repeat

How to fix:
Enemies spawn should only be affected by the workbench if you killed them once.

[MechWarden]

I posted about this before in a playtest (thread now archived and hidden) after spawn proofing the whole place with Crafting Benches, but I made another discussion thread related to this (https://steamcommunity.com/app/427410/discussions/0/4358999171575016758/) because it really does need to be addressed.

Though, I don't thing that would totally fix the problem, since it would make the area easier to clear since the respawns are disabled. It would require more work to pull off, but once it is done the place is cleared for good.

[Anker]

Is this something that needs to be fixed...? Like, workbenches are great to put through areas you want to pass through frequently and dont want to have a hassle every time they visit a trading station or a water source or something.

But who would power workbenches everywhere enemies spawn? That's an insane thing to do. On top of how much work it would be, you do still want to fight some enemies- You want to eat, don't you? Don't you want that meat? Those ammo drops, once guns are no longer complete ♥♥♥♥?

You can trivialize enemies with workbenches, or putting up teslas and a battery, or a barricade and making them run up to you so you can stab them in the face, etc etc etc. Just because something can be abused if you put *way, way too much work into it* doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed in a way that impacts how *most players use it*- Eg, not completely excessively like you're suggesting.

[Anker]

Not to mention workbenches don't even block spawns in portal worlds, so if the game *wants* to throw enemies at you regardless, it will. It doesn't stop the devs when they want to force the issue.

[StopItStepBro]

Sounds less of a problem concerning “cheesing” and more of a problem of too many people having separate bases in one server and disproportionately affecting enemy spawns.

[MechWarden]

Originally posted by Anker:

Not to mention workbenches don't even block spawns in portal worlds, so if the game *wants* to throw enemies at you regardless, it will. It doesn't stop the devs when they want to force the issue.

I have yet to check it, but in an earlier version there some ways to cheese Crafting Benches to suppress enemies and not have to worry about raids.

[Jeffman12]

Is there a setting to turn up raid difficulty? Because each raid I've encountered (Never used portal suppression yet) has been very easy to take care of except one time when a leyak let a bunch of zombies in and they wrecked my hydroponics setup

[Kikinaak]

This kinda reads like "OMG, these scientists in MY sandbox game are finding a way around problems without becoming barbarians and bashing heads in! Exploit! Cheaters! Force them to direct violence!"

Would you be responding the same way if it was a ninja themed game, sneaking into an area, poisoning the water supply and watching enemies drop dead and not respawn? And it already comes with a "penalty" of sorts in that no enemies mean no drops. Blocking spawns except for controlled and trapped areas is fighting smarter, not harder.

I'm also not 100% certain on how portal storms choose targets, but if it considers anywhere you have a craft bench as a base, chasing the portals down all over a map would be a nightmare and you'd be almost guaranteed to lose a bench or two.

[Jeffman12]

Originally posted by Kikinaak:

This kinda reads like "OMG, these scientists in MY sandbox game are finding a way around problems without becoming barbarians and bashing heads in! Exploit! Cheaters! Force them to direct violence!"

Would you be responding the same way if it was a ninja themed game, sneaking into an area, poisoning the water supply and watching enemies drop dead and not respawn? And it already comes with a "penalty" of sorts in that no enemies mean no drops. Blocking spawns except for controlled and trapped areas is fighting smarter, not harder.

I'm also not 100% certain on how portal storms choose targets, but if it considers anywhere you have a craft bench as a base, chasing the portals down all over a map would be a nightmare and you'd be almost guaranteed to lose a bench or two.

You know, you're right the solution to the former is to just play with different people or just communicate. If you're the one exploiting this AND you have the problem with it, just stop doing it. If you can't help yourself optimizing what you consider the fun out of a game, you need to develop some self-control.

As to the latter, portal storm locations are determined by where you are, thankfully.

[MechWarden]

Originally posted by Kikinaak:

This kinda reads like "OMG, these scientists in MY sandbox game are finding a way around problems without becoming barbarians and bashing heads in! Exploit! Cheaters! Force them to direct violence!"

Would you be responding the same way if it was a ninja themed game, sneaking into an area, poisoning the water supply and watching enemies drop dead and not respawn? And it already comes with a "penalty" of sorts in that no enemies mean no drops. Blocking spawns except for controlled and trapped areas is fighting smarter, not harder.

I'm also not 100% certain on how portal storms choose targets, but if it considers anywhere you have a craft bench as a base, chasing the portals down all over a map would be a nightmare and you'd be almost guaranteed to lose a bench or two.

The issue I have is purely game design.

From what the trailers show of the game, the devs want players to build up bases with fancy over powered traps and barricades and whatnot. I like that, I want that!

The reality is that after over a hundred hours of playing and testing, I've yet to really need anything remotely like what is shown. Granted, the Play test and Demo didn't offer much in content so it isn't a fair test, but I haven't seen much of a need to change my habits in this Early Access game either.

Not only is the enemy behavior pushing people to just stay hidden (a topic for another thread), and the enemies are kind of weak (another topic), but the spawn proofing system is both not very transparent to new players and also very easy to exploit and make said goal of the devs even more moot.

It takes some time and effort (mostly time) to test out my theory (again) regarding this Crafting Bench cheese (and to pretty much kill the life of a given save), but eventually soon I'm going to spawn proof the place and likely prove that it doesn't take much in resources nor would it be a pain in terms of having to defend a mess of bases.
...
and to me that's a really big problem.

[MechWarden]

Hate to double post, but I finally started my test.

Surprise Surprise my theory is holding. (which isn't good).

I put a Crafting Bench on the decorative ceiling tiles in the Data Farm, and as I last remembered, the portal storms and raids didn't not happen while under the bench, and yet the entire place was clear of enemies, except for one Pest in the far end and a Exor that walked in from the Restroom.

Now I just have to find out how far under I need to be, find suitable locations, and I can spawn proof the rest of the game. (fun /sarcasm)

[koffi duck]

upgrade on the crafting bench that uses anvils (limited resource) to make the bench deactivate spawns would be the ideal change imo. plus if you can "dismantle" the upgrade to get the anvil back if you need more repair benches

[Monokuma]

I'm going to be honest here, is this really a problem that needs to be fixed for private games? The easiest solution to crafting benches being used to block spawns across the game is... not putting crafting benches everywhere. This isn't some major competitive game, cheesy exploits are okay because the only people they affect are the people who are deliberately taking advantage of them. If someone wants to ruin their own experience, that's kind of on them?

[Anker]

Yeah, just... Don't Do That. I dunno about you, chief, but even before they reduced the number of enemies spawning in single player, there were few places I traveled I even cared enough to put up a crafting bench. I'd take the fight for the resources basically all of the time otherwise.

Sounds like a personal issue, honestly? I don't think the majority of players have this problem. In a "play your way" sort of thing you're objecting to players getting to play their way because you don't think it's fun.

[CombatWombat]

Originally posted by Monokuma:

I'm going to be honest here, is this really a problem that needs to be fixed for private games? The easiest solution to crafting benches being used to block spawns across the game is... not putting crafting benches everywhere. This isn't some major competitive game, cheesy exploits are okay because the only people they affect are the people who are deliberately taking advantage of them. If someone wants to ruin their own experience, that's kind of on them?

Yes and no, for single player it might not be a problem, then again I found out by getting ready to clear crossroads and put a bench down to craft some things but forgot something went away and came back to empty crossroads. Kinda lame and kills immersion.

And then there are people that want to use the best method to clear or "win" a game and are annoyed that such an exploit exists.

With the ultra fast respawn it is also kind of mandatory if you clear an area and need to move away for a second you need to place a bench if you don't want to return to a completely respwaned area.

[Monokuma]

Originally posted by CombatWombat:

And then there are people that want to use the best method to clear or "win" a game and are annoyed that such an exploit exists.

I mean, that's still a "them" issue. If someone uses creative mode in minecraft to kill the ender dragon, that's not a good reason to get rid of creative mode.