Maestro Set obtaining

[Favouritism ❤ ain't my thing]

During my playthrough, I realized there is an armor set that you can skip without realizing it. The offender is of course Maestro Set, due to its lack of exposition. As probably everyone knows, we get the Idea of creating a new item by obtaining all the components that build it. Usually, this works fine unless an item requires something with a low drop rate (In this instance it is the Organ).

On average, you need to kill 10 symphonists to learn that an armor set can be built from their loot. This wouldn't be the problem itself, but if we take into account that:

• Symphonists are quite durable and powerful enemies(especially at the stage we can encounter them)
  
• We don't have guaranteed encounters with them(we can't control the occurrence of the fog in the facility and Flathills can generate without any guaranteed encounter)

An alternative way to obtain the organ is to combine partial organs obtained from fishing. This does a much better job of exposing the player to the possibility of creating the Maestro Set. On average, you need to catch 4 Cordfishes to realize there is something like a "Partial Organ" that can be combined into an "Organ".

My suggestion to help with the visibility of the set as a viable option would be:

• Ensuring at least one guaranteed encounter with the Symphonist at further visits at Flathill
  
• Add the drop of the "Partial Organ" (1-2) at quite high chance(something between 25% to 50%)
  
• Decrease the drop of the "Organ" to 5% (or even keep it, the point is to make it more of a "nice bonus/rare drop", rather than actually a farmable resource)
  
• Change the crafting recipe of both Maestro Vambraces and Graves to require the "Partial Organs" (2-3 per piece).
  
• Reduce the amount of "Partial Organs" needed to craft an "Organ" from 5 to 4

[MechWarden]

A bit of a tangent, but it would go faster if,
Porcelain Keys actually dropped from Symphonists!

I've killed like 33 of them (I know, I kept all the heads) and found no keys! And a few keys would help give us more materials for making the Maestro Set.

And that's with dang near guaranteed encounters. I've got a base in the HQ office, and more often than not, there is a Symphonist right there, luring around near the elevator, with one or two others in Flathill. After farming the area I'd go off and do other things while waiting for respawns.

I've got so many practically useless heads. Why can't we turn them into something more useful?

[Doctor Darling]

I didn't get my first porcelain key until deep into the Hydroplant. It's crazy.

[76561198972294167]

It's not a mandatory armor to get though.

[Black]

Yes! This armor is so nice looking + is nice in between armor, it's such a shame that so many people might skip it

[Favouritism ❤ ain't my thing]

Originally posted by Blackforge:

It's not a mandatory armor to get though.

Technically any content that isn't blocking the "golden path" (the road to progress the game) isn't mandatory. This doesn't mean it is not worth showing the player all the possible ways to interact with the content. While balancing is quite subjective (how many shards/organs and how often they drop), the exposition of the content is quite an objective task for the game developer.

For instance, the Hexed armor set deals much better with familiarizing us with obtaining it. Hexwood is introduced as a relevant crafting resource (small sign, mannequins, bucket), with few recipes that require only things found earlier(mostly in labs or office sectors). Later, we can pick up Kevlar Scraps in the security sector at a very early stage. This alone leads to discovering 3 of 4 items that make the Hexed Set. For comparison, Porcelain Shards unlock no new recipes, as all other items requiring them also need The Organ.

While there are many viable ways to familiarize the players with their possibilities (for example adding a crafting recipe that requires only porcelain shards and items we found prior in the facility), I think that rebalancing the drops of the Symphonists is the most reasonable, especially considering the scope of the update that will introduce the Reactor.

[Bonkers]

Any change to make the Maestro set more feasible to get without refreshing flathill countless times or fishing for ages is a great change in my book. I farmed for it right after finishing Flathill on my last save, just to see how it performs at the stage of the game you unlock it at and the whole process took a ridiculous amount of time.

Which is even more of a shame with how fun of an armor set it is to use.

[MechWarden]

Even in solo, where you only want one, the armor set is too hard to get in a reasonable amount of time before it gets 'out dated' or overshadowed by other things. And that was before the current issue with key drop rates.
(which btw, on kill 37 and 38 I got two keys... Finally!)

Which is a shame, since it looks neat and it has a neat set feature to it.

I can see stuff being under tuned by design when developing, but this armor is a little painfully to get.

I'd hate to grind it out for a party of 6.
Though, I think with the co-op group I have, there is one person that's really into fishing... so there's that ray of hope.

[CombatWombat]

Originally posted by Favouritism ❤ ain't my thing:

During my playthrough, I realized there is an armor set that you can skip without realizing it. The offender is of course Maestro Set, due to its lack of exposition. As probably everyone knows, we get the Idea of creating a new item by obtaining all the components that build it. Usually, this works fine unless an item requires something with a low drop rate (In this instance it is the Organ).

On average, you need to kill 10 symphonists to learn that an armor set can be built from their loot. This wouldn't be the problem itself, but if we take into account that:

• Symphonists are quite durable and powerful enemies(especially at the stage we can encounter them)
  
• We don't have guaranteed encounters with them(we can't control the occurrence of the fog in the facility and Flathills can generate without any guaranteed encounter)

An alternative way to obtain the organ is to combine partial organs obtained from fishing. This does a much better job of exposing the player to the possibility of creating the Maestro Set. On average, you need to catch 4 Cordfishes to realize there is something like a "Partial Organ" that can be combined into an "Organ".

My suggestion to help with the visibility of the set as a viable option would be:

• Ensuring at least one guaranteed encounter with the Symphonist at further visits at Flathill
  
• Add the drop of the "Partial Organ" (1-2) at quite high chance(something between 25% to 50%)
  
• Decrease the drop of the "Organ" to 5% (or even keep it, the point is to make it more of a "nice bonus/rare drop", rather than actually a farmable resource)
  
• Change the crafting recipe of both Maestro Vambraces and Graves to require the "Partial Organs" (2-3 per piece).
  
• Reduce the amount of "Partial Organs" needed to craft an "Organ" from 5 to 4

There is a guy WEARING the armor. Some things are harder to obtain. That's a feature.

(If the drops are bugged they should be fixed of course)

[MechWarden]

At least one drop feels very much bugged on my end, and that seems to be the keys. Early on I said the Tablet drop rates were swapped with the keys, but I might have just gotten lucky with that, since I haven't seen any more tablet drops after the two I got almost right away.
(though for as few chances you get to attack them, the rarity of the tablet seems unusually high, but then again it might actually be fine for that kind of item)

Even then, with the Organ drop seemingly being on point to what the wiki lists it is still makes the armor set a bit too rare. If the keys were dropping correctly, practically doubling the Organ gain rate as long as there are chests left, the rate still feels rater low. Might be fine for solo if the keys dropped properly for me, but for a decent size group; good luck on getting the armor for everyone.
(or hope to have a dedicated fisher)

I still wish someone could look at the code after the update and see if things got changed, because it feels like a few things aren't matching up.

[CombatWombat]

Originally posted by MechWarden:

At least one drop feels very much bugged on my end, and that seems to be the keys. Early on I said the Tablet drop rates were swapped with the keys, but I might have just gotten lucky with that, since I haven't seen any more tablet drops after the two I got almost right away.
(though for as few chances you get to attack them, the rarity of the tablet seems unusually high, but then again it might actually be fine for that kind of item)

Even then, with the Organ drop seemingly being on point to what the wiki lists it is still makes the armor set a bit too rare. If the keys were dropping correctly, practically doubling the Organ gain rate as long as there are chests left, the rate still feels rater low. Might be fine for solo if the keys dropped properly for me, but for a decent size group; good luck on getting the armor for everyone.
(or hope to have a dedicated fisher)

I still wish someone could look at the code after the update and see if things got changed, because it feels like a few things aren't matching up.

Instead of increasing the chance and ruin it for some solo players why not make some drops multiple of an item depending on number of players. For example the organ.

[MechWarden]

I'm a bit wary of basing loot drops on player count. If anything, having some things drop less often, rather than more, when you have more players is likely the move in more cases than not.

It isn't a bad idea at first glance, but group dynamics can do some really weird things. Heck, it might be a moot point as a bunch of players just decide to fish all at once for the needed loot, or you have the one dedicated person that either fishes a lot or regularly solos the Symphonists while people do other things.

Also we're yet to see real NPC traders show up, so maybe that will better answer this problem.

[Favouritism ❤ ain't my thing]

Originally posted by CombatWombat:

There is a guy WEARING the armor. Some things are harder to obtain. That's a feature.

(If the drops are bugged they should be fixed of course)

Well, it depends if you put an equal sign between something being hard and something being grindy. You can obtain 3 of 4 parts of the armor set by simply fishing, which in my opinion, isn't particularly hard. While the exact number is a matter of discussion. However, redistribution of the drops from one that is needed in lower quantity but is rare to one that is required in larger numbers but is more common is usually a better practice. This creates an illusion of steady progress, by regularly updating the count of needed resources for the set. You still need to combat with the Symphonist, as you need their head to complete the armor. That is why at least one guaranteed encounter should be added to Flathills after the first visit. Redoing the location isn't particularly hard, it is just grindy to revisit it and hoping for at least one encounter to generate.

[Bonkers]

Originally posted by Favouritism ❤ ain't my thing:

Originally posted by CombatWombat:

There is a guy WEARING the armor. Some things are harder to obtain. That's a feature.

(If the drops are bugged they should be fixed of course)

Well, it depends if you put an equal sign between something being hard and something being grindy. You can obtain 3 of 4 parts of the armor set by simply fishing, which in my opinion, isn't particularly hard. While the exact number is a matter of discussion. However, redistribution of the drops from one that is needed in lower quantity but is rare to one that is required in larger numbers but is more common is usually a better practice. This creates an illusion of steady progress, by regularly updating the count of needed resources for the set. You still need to combat with the Symphonist, as you need their head to complete the armor. That is why at least one guaranteed encounter should be added to Flathills after the first visit. Redoing the location isn't particularly hard, it is just grindy to revisit it and hoping for at least one encounter to generate.

And if you want to reach the armor set's full potential, you also still need to fight Symphonists until they drop a key.

[RaisedbyMice]

Maybe they could borrow from Grounded (another survival game). You craft trophies out of enemy pieces and when you rub them for luck you can get either a buff for damage or a buff for loot chance.

Symphonists drop their giant freaky heads, maybe we could make soup from it and drink from the skull of our enemies to learn their secrets and have a better drop chance of items.

My concern with such an idea though is that there aren't that many enemies with a rare/valuable low drop item on them so it feels like we'd be introducing a single gimmick that would be used on a single enemy and forgotten about. (but it could be expanded to include new enemies maybe)

[MechWarden]

Something I said elsewhere is that maybe an NPC trade could help out. You could turn in either a semi-rare item, or a lot of a relatively common but meaningful drop, and gradually work up towards a key. As I said before in another thread, I wouldn't mind turning in several heads (which drop every time) sprinkled with special glitter dust and strung up with Kevlar rope and magical super science duct tape to get one key in return.
(Note: Devs, please don't actually involve Kevlar, that's mostly a joke to make a point)

As for the Organs, I'm a bit less sure about since you do have fishing to help supplement that, but I personally don't know the practicality of it; for either solo or in a group. Though it could likely use a slight tweak to make it a tad easier to get.