Job, Trait and Skill System

[Truehearted]

Jobs can serve a quick way to get skills if a server is almost finishing the story, but are all outshined by summer intern if you just starting out or even just in the middle, jobs may also serve as archetypes, classes and examples on how to build a character for all players, but that building means little to nothing late in game, every single character mostly shares the same effects that come from skill levels and perks. Traits at the moment do not give enough variation to feel like they improve an archetype more than others, at best they give some nice advantages or disadvantages quite early in the game but those differences are severely reduced the more you progress.

As it stands now, Jobs do not justify their own existence, players can’t lose levels or experience, death is not permanent, skills levels can be just gained, it seems like you guys just copied the zomboid system with none of the consequences attached, that doesn’t make sense for abiotic factor, keeping them is fine, if they are there just to help new players find a role or archetype to initially follow, but if they were supposed to be truly role defining, then their bonuses need to be different, permanent and impactful throughout the whole game. Lab Assistant should improve stealth greatly at all levels, and receive more benefits from it, not just gain some early levels, maybe they can see vision cones or know precisely how detectable they are, those exemples are independent of levels, and grant meta knowledge over stealth. Regardless, if they are just a collection of skills, maybe jobs should be dropped as a mechanical feature and kept as a cosmetic one, custom ID, title, etc.

Traits are underwhelming, they mostly change the frequency and duration you have to do something for, how many times I have to drink, eat, sleep or bandage myself is just busywork, those traits are “fixed” just by farming stuff, only Lead Belly and Fear of Violence seem to be actual character traits with quite unique effects, Lead Belly being quite nice and Fear of Violence being character defining. The GATE facility seems to be quite accessible to vehicles already, why not make a wheelchair-bound trait and change the facility layout a little? The other problem with traits is that you are stuck with them until you create a new character (or facility for those with less file knowledge). Again this seems like a zomboid copy feature that doesn’t quite fit this game, but with some feedback I’m sure this system will work out.

There are certainly more skill effects and perks than on the playtests, but this small increments system combined with little character choice and customization is quite poor. I do understand that solo players should be able to diversify so they don’t become dependent on others and get don't into too much trouble when alone, but that doesn’t mean the system needs to make all characters the same. RPGs tend to have systems in place to upgrade the capabilities of solo players, perks or traits related to that could be made as a solution, for example there could be a perk or trait that increases damage dealt and reduces damage received based on the number of players around you, for a solo version of this effect the effect starts strong and decreases as the character gets close to other players, this could also help players that like to play with friends but would rather “go solo” frequently while still on the server, a team version could be made too, the effect would weak when alone but improves the more players are close by.

The example above mentions this “solo/team” trait, but also mentions the possibility of making it a perk, that would be counterproductive to making players builds different IF the system is not reworked, I strongly recommend making players choose their perks on each “perk” level of a skill. General perks like this “solo/team” one would be bound to a category of skills, let's say it is bound to the Combat skill category, instead of just leveling Blunt or Sharp Melee, a character would also level the Combat category which both skills (Blunt and Sharp) are part of, once they reach a exp/level threshold in the Combat category they may select a general combat perk, those “solo/team” perks would be selectable there.

For the Sharp Melee skill that would mean when reaching level 3 they can choose any Sharp Melee perk instead of being forced into [Sharp Throwing], yes even the now level 12 perk [Slice N' Dice], but instead of being as powerful as a level 12 perk, it would be as powerful as a level 3 perk, the effect would scale and change with overall skill level, a character with level 7 in Sharp would have all their perks scaled to the level 7. Of course there's no need to scale perks to skill level, maybe both [Sharp Throwing] and [Clean Cutter] could be available for selection at level 3 and beyond but the other more advanced/powerful perks would be simply locked.

This way all perks can be useful but not everyone will have every single perk available for a determined skill, this way two sharp melee characters could be quite different, a high damage thrower with instant kill capabilities or a hoplite slowing bleeding and burning their foes while protecting himself from harm, another advantage is that a cook would be able to level sharp weapons just enough to butcher with their desired effectiveness then he could focus on something else.

Regardless, I also would like to suggest some new perks to change stats like Armor Weight, Shield Knockback, Shield Stamina on Block, and a perk that gives a great but short speed boost once the player starts running, it would work as a dodge based skill, used for controlling distance between attacks, it would be most effective at light armor weight. On a final note, it seems this system was greatly inspired by zomboid, I would recommend fallout, conan exiles, and some generic tabletop rpgs as other nice starting points.

[Mad Max]

Yeah, I think the Jobs at Character creation should have an 'Innate Trait' tied to them that can't be gotten anywhere else.

Because ATM there really isn't a reason to choose anything besides Intern so you can choose more traits that are actually unique like Fanny Pack.

[Nyss - at wark]

I totally agree with the points above and have been mulling over potential ideas to make Jobs more worth one's consideration. Skills are nice, but the first few levels of skills can be acquired in less than a couple hours of play, so they're sorta pointless in the long run. I think baked in traits would be the way to go for giving Jobs more meaning.

Lab Assistant: Starting with 10 trails points is pretty great so I would say his inherent trait shoud be a good utility that helps him and anyone he parties with.
Trait: Step and Fetch - Gains extra carry weight with each level of strength compared to other classes. Stacks with Buff Brainiac.
Trait: Strong Back - Slowed down less when critically overloaded.

Epimedical Bionomicist: Medic is honestly ridiculously weak and should be given something very effective, otherwise it's just not worth taking.
Trait: Hippocrates' Oath - All medical treatments given by this character heal additional health over time, especially bandages.
Trait: Hypocrite's Oath - Sharp Melee has a much higher chance to cause bleeding.

Trans-Kinematic Researcher: Smashy boy smash but maybe make him smash gooder?
Trait: Percussive Maintenance - Strength Trait both increases HP and Blunt Weapon damage, as well as carry weight.

Archotechnic Consultant: Everyone will outstrip this class completely by the time the office is all done with. He needs something more.
Trait: Never Leave Home Without It: Has a special hotbar slot for a multitool that cannot be dropped or lost. It acts like a slightly slower screwdriver. Is capable of building certain fortifications and structures without needing a Crafting Station.

Phytogenetic Botanist: I personally love this class, but botany has always felt super optional, and starting with the basic planter recipes is 100% worthless.
Trait: Green Thumb: Can plant and care for certain plants that other classes cannot.
Trait: Feed Me, Seymour: Plants tended to by this character are hardier and can go much longer without water.

Somatic Gastrologist: Cooking is another skill that is eventually just maxed out by everyone given time, which is fine, but cook really needs to stand out more.
Trait: Nutrition Expert - All food cooked by this character improves health and stamina regen. The better the food, the better the regen.
Trait: Butcher - Has a much better chance to cut corpses up for food. Starts with a hotbar slot with a butcher knife in it that can't be lost, but also can't be crafted into anything else.

Paratheoretical Physicist: He's a fun crafty guy who makes neat things, and we should support and encourage this. Make him THE guy who should do the team's bulk crafting.
Trait: Efficiency - Has a chance to be refunded simple/scrap materials every time he crafts an item.

Defense Analyst: Baked in Slow Learner is a big disadvantage, but let's work with it instead of try to replace it. Defense Consultant's job is to take a beating, and he should be able to turn those cheap batons and ragged old security armor into something worth his time.
Trait: Security Credentials - Starts with gear that has it's own line of durable, effective upgrades that only the owner can use. If the gear is lost, a new set can be acquired from Warren.

Summer Intern: Raise Trait Points to 12 to 14, Start with a negative trait, something that holds him back in the early game to make it more challenging, but can and will be outgrown.
Trait: Fresh Face - If a skill is under level 5, it develops 35% slower. Wrinky Brainmeat and Slow Learner do not take effect while Fresh Face is suppressing growth. Fresh Face does not affect fitness related skills like Strength, Sprinting, and Fortitude.

[Moron]

100% agree with giving jobs unique Traits that are exclusive to them and provide a unique gameplay twist. It's currently too easy to max out skills outside your job and only a few of the advantages/disadvantages really matter

[A kobold]

Funny thing two of the jobs do start with superior buffs.

The botinist knows how to make garden plots right off the bat, granted they should really start with some seeds (like a potato and tomato).

and the security guard starts with a beat stick, vest, and helmet. (granted they should start with a pistol and 1 mag of ammo as well just because it fits.)

note in () are suggestions.

[Nyss - at wark]

Sadly the moment you get a bag of dirt you get the idea for a garden plots, thusly nullifying the benefit of knowing how completely. And the Security Guard's stick vest and helmet are borderline worthless and replaced very, very quickly.

[Kyna Tiona]

Personally, I think rather than having special bonuses to specific jobs in exchange for the far more interesting job points, all jobs but Summer Intern should just be preset recommendations using the same point system as Intern. Ideally there will eventually be more traits, which means more choices, which means some proportion of players will get analysis paralysis and either grab things at random or have to set the game down. Having presets removes that point of friction, while also letting more savvy players quickly identify which traits are fundamental to their intended playstyle and need to be included in a custom build.

Consequently, this means that everything the jobs currently give need to be available for Intern players. Some possibilities for how to do that:

- Allow players to trade job points for skill bonuses, probably +2 skill points per 1 job point. As mentioned, this would currently be useless, but that's because skill bonuses are essentially just free XP. If they instead functioned as flat bonuses, it would mean you skip the most XP-intensive levels. (So for example, a +2 to Accuracy would mean you reach the max level of 12 with the same amount of XP that other characters need to reach level 10.)

- Attach more skill bonuses and starting items to traits that don't already have them, preferably with the same XP-reducing mechanic as above.

- Give players a set number of skill points to distribute alongside trait points, and automatically grant starting items based on initial skill values.

- Add more of the "just better at skill X" traits, like Hobbyist Chef or Decathalon.

And finally, these changes will make it pretty much necessary to give players some way of respeccing their character. I'm sure we can figure out something with Tesla coils, vintage chairs, computation bricks, and reinforced hoses, probably using human brains as fuel.

[Vaulttrooper48]

I had the same idea! Having ups and downs on what you can and cannot do with what Job/class you chose making you play differently. also voice/personality would be different for each job.