Canaanites Do Too Much Damage

[Hooman]

Like, seriously, for enemies who will spawn in that dimension infinitely it is impossible to fight them for any extended period of time. You will run out of healing, they will almost certainly kill you at least once. I get the point is to stealth but you cannot MAKE that point when you also make them have unique drops as well as give incentive to kill them so you can acquire more of a certain thing, like lodestone fragments.

In all honesty? I don't think I'd care if it wasn't for the fact that after you go there your portal raids have a habit of becoming canaanites. And unless something just changed, it seems the thing that normally stops portals from spawning with your crafting bench just doesn't work on them? Maybe it's just in a jank spot, i'unno, but I really think they should not be dealing that much damage if they're just gonna show up outside of that world.

It's also leading into another issue I have which is The Order are like... not a threat anymore? They were more or less on-par with the threats in Labs but the defense bots entirely outclass them (which admittedly, I love those things they're awesome and I think they should be stronger) but then you get things where these village people are way more of a threat than the militarized operatives who are all heavily armed. The only order unit that makes me sort of flinch anymore is the breacher, though they also die way easier than the canaanites, or the snipers since they can inflict heavy bleeding.

It makes me almost fearful of the next update cause like, GATE Keepers look super cool, but it makes me similarly worried that either they're not going to be a significant threat, or they're going to be TOO significant and then also invade your base, which if they do I imagine they're not gonna teleport in.



Slightly related note, I don't like that you can't farm the Canaan corn or get a properly good volume of apples or corn per-run. It makes those two ingredients kind of a pain in the ass to gather en-masse. Which normally, you really don't gotta, but you need SIX apples for a pie. Just feels a little weird to need to make runs to canaan exclusively for just some more apples.

[ULTRA]

A perennial survival crafter issue. "OK you killed that ancient god, but can you handle this flying insect!?!?"

[Crochwhisle purple]

Indie game curse of human enemies. In quite a lot of games a human can take a shotgun blast to the face like nothing, while huge non human enemies will get utterly annihilated by the same attack.
The canaanites are too tanky, deal too much damage, and rarely get staggered by your attacks. If i could atleast stunlock them with a molly or blows to the head it`d be fine, but they are each their own walking tank with a timed alarm inside. They will literally rush to the bell while half their brain is missing and/or melted after i walloped them with a thermal mallet, and then turn around and die instantly from the next attack. I really don`t understand who keeps this trend alive and why does this happen in so many indie games specifically.

[MechWarden]

I think there is something unnatural in their food. The corn they grow doesn't look right at all.

[Hooman]

Originally posted by MechWarden:

I think there is something unnatural in their food. The corn they grow doesn't look right at all.

I know it's the corn and I don't care, I'm talking about raw balancing. Example being-

Originally posted by Crochwhisle purple:

The canaanites are too tanky, deal too much damage, and rarely get staggered by your attacks.

Specifically this. They wouldn't feel so miserable to fight if it wasn't for the fact they take so much damage to actually kill. Conversely, they wouldn't feel bad if they just didn't deal so much damage. The only enemies that actually have more HP than them are the Yeti, Tarasque, and Defense Bots (maybe containment bots.) If it was just dealing a lot of damage or taking a lot of damage nobody would care, but it's not, it's BOTH. Their melee strikes hurt WAY MORE than any guns you're shot with that aren't the snipers or Defense Bots, and they're tankier than any other human enemy to the point that you really can't actually do the usual thing you do with enemies and just beat their heads in while stunning half their attacks. That could've been an interesting angle to work, making it so you have to consider blocking or stealth much more. But it doesn't work when 2 of them can ignore shields and their immediate response to seeing you isn't "Kill this guy" but rather "Run to the bell while being near impossible to stagger or kill before you ring it, effectively ensuring you are going to have to deal with a fresh wave of them coming in, one of that wave ringing the bell again while you're busy fighting the other 3 canaanites."

And again. NOBODY WOULD CARE IF IT WAS JUST IN CANAAN, BUT THEY RAID YOUR BASE. Which makes them feel WAY less special, because now they're just an overworld enemy too. You know a portal based enemy that takes this sort of idea and does it well? THE ZOMBIES. Because they're mostly non-intrusive to the areas they invade and generally just add to the environment as opposed to "Well ♥♥♥♥ me guess I'm losing half my hp this encounter."

[[xX$_Øbama360MLGaming420_$Xx]]

why? why do people have to be so whiny? just git gud.

[Scooter]

Originally posted by xX$_Øbama360MLGaming420_$Xx:

why? why do people have to be so whiny? just git gud.

Cause there's nothing to "git gud" at here....
It's just numercis being overtuned, that's it. The enemy AI in this game is still rudimentary as all heck that it's easy to make distance and make space between crowds of enemies to pick them off.

It's made that way simply because the devs wanted to simulate a stealth heavy playstyle and tension for the Halloween spook theme but with how basic the AI and stealth mechanics are, it simply does not work and most encounters will lead to an all out brawl.

[Phoenix‎ Rose]

so the crafting bench upgrade only stops the actual "cracked portals" from appearing inside your base. they do not stop the random events of enemies spawning, such as you getting a random Order Patrol, or random Peccery Patrol, or even a random Exor Patrol.

mine and my friends base is built in the section where there is a fence shutter you can make go up and down, and funny enough, each time a random event spawns, the enemies spawn down by where the robot is, and they ALWAYS make their way up to the closed shutter and just walk into it.

i know this will probably get fixed. but currently the enemies can't tell wether or not the shutter is closed as it doesn't "cut off" their path finding, so they just keep walking into it, allowing me and my friend to shoot or poke at the enemies "hands" that stick through it for very easy kills

[Iraneth The Goat]

Should half their health/damage and spawn 2x more of them. So your more fighting a village.

[ULTRA]

Originally posted by xX$_Øbama360MLGaming420_$Xx:

why? why do people have to be so whiny? just git gud.

I don't even think these guys hit me once my entire playthrough of Canaan, but that doesn't mean that they're good.

[mr steal ur spell]

are you utilizing grenades ? The area can definitely be tough without the right equipment but bombs are available early and help out with these guys because once one of them hits the bell the rest come running.

[Gaming_Bigfoot]

Everyone has their own experience with the game, and for mine, I didn't have too much trouble fighting the Canaanites despite ending up there blind. Admittedly the torch-bearers have proven intimidating with how early their swing lands, but that was the only real issue I ran into there.

That said, from what I've seen I'm also weird for liking the heavy melee weapons compared to most players, so...

Base invasions add another layer of base complexity, but at the same time they still get chewed up easily enough from my pre-existing defenses (that is to say, ones I made before running into Canaan) but again, maybe I'm weird with my setup or something and got lucky.

In any case, the Canaan music might be my favorite track in the game and that alone makes every trip there worth it for me.

[Hooman]

People are kind of missing the point I was making. It's not "they aren't allowed to be dangerous or hard." It's "For the purpose they serve, they deal way too much damage." Let's look at it from a functional progression standpoint, you can access them right at Security because realistically all you need is night essence and the vine plant thing, which you don't even need to finish Security to access, but realistically you're probably going to Canaan after at least STARTING Hydroplant. Now let's be fair and assume you, as a new player, farmed out a security guard set (like me) before going. Or let's assume you, as a not-so-new player, already had the entire mountaineer set before going.

They were still absolutely reaming my HP, and you can't just fight them the way you do the rest of the enemies. They run directly at you, there is no wind-up to their attacks, the pitchforks have grab moves, they are infinitely spawning, they alert the horde if they ring the bell (you really should be allowed to cut those ropes), they have more hp than like any of the Order units WHO ARE IN BODY ARMOR (Yes I know about the corn and I don't care the Breacher is meant to be the present "big tanky unit." Even comparing them to the mountaineer enemies isn't particularly fair given those guys are still weaker). It is wild that the least dangerous ones are the crossbow guards.

"Just get good. Are you using grenades?" I want you to know I have, at the present, done everything in the game except for go to the toilet dimension. I always do everything in the update when it's released because I really do enjoy this game, I love the way they do the bases, the power, the cooking, the crafting, the inventory management. It's all fun. So yes, I have done the things you all are asking, and I bring 3 healing briefcases with me because I'm GOING to get hit a lot there. The canaanites, at first, were not a problem. They were restricted to a solitary dimension that was inherently optional and you never had to go to, but if you did you got rewarded. THAT WAS FINE. THAT WAS ENTIRELY FINE, I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEM IN THEIR DIMENSION. The bell thing is annoying but it is f-i-n-e. What I have a problem with is these absurdly powerful enemies spawning in my base and screwing up my farms when they were before an entirely optional challenge. It is because of them I actually decided "screw it" and chose to put laser turrets in my base when I didn't need ANY turrets before.


By the way thank you to the guy who said that it's only the "cracked" portals that're stopped. ...Which tbh, kind of begs the question of what is even the point of that upgrade at a point because you entirely stop getting those kinds of raids? But overall, I'm just upset at how they're trying to make them an external force when that's not really how the rest of the game goes with the express exclusion of the zombies, which are done well.

[Nerevar]

fun fact : ALL enemys that raid your base teleport in. you just dont see them doing it in most base locations. but all teleport in.

there is only 2 types of raid events that actually spawn portals inside your base : the very first one which is blocked for good by the upgrade.

and the lazor beam one. which.... doesnt even spawn any enemies to begin with. just fires some lazors at the player only and then ends.

the rest is always spawned outside your workbench area UNLESS your base is so large and cramped that they cannot find a proper spawn spot and then the failsafe triggers which allows them to spawn in anywhere to prevent the player from spawnblocking em.

and if you dont want raids well just build in the mirror. done.

[MechWarden]

As for the base attacks, there are two types of attacks, the Portal Storms (rips in space near your Crafting Bench) and Raids, which should spawn outside your base, but due to limited spawn points that doesn't always happen.

The point of the portal suppression upgrade is to stop the Pest (and electo-pest) and Peccary attacks from showing up behind your base defenses. The Raids are handled by your growing arsenal of defenses you've collected.

As for the 'People of the Corn' Canaanites, they are tougher and hit harder and there really isn't much of an apparent reason for it other than power creep. Head canon makes me think the weird corn they eat is making them numb to pain and amps up strength, not unlike taking certain drugs. Something else to keep in mind that the torches they attack you with are not normal, they have some 'holy fire' trait (ignoring armor) and can and will wreck you if you are careless. Similar with the axes, where they poison you on hit.

My first 'joke' comment was only half joking, since there is more going on there than what meets the eye. I think that lack of broadcasting some of those important details by the game is likely why people are both caught so badly off guard and highly confused.

The co-op group I'm in just went through that area, and while it was rough, the 5-6 of us did clean house, but it used a good amount of ammo. I'm not sure what difficulty you are in, but we are in the Hard difficulty. When I played it in solo, I personally didn't mind, even in Apocalyptic difficulty. However I too noticed how hard they were to down, but I was kind of starving for a good challenge by that point.

Canaan might be overturned for most people playing in solo. There are so many new and dangerous attacks from 'simple village people' that the power scale feels more like bad coding than intentional'show rather than tell' story telling.

[ganthritor42]

I have not had the pleasure of visiting with the Canaanites yet. And I am not saying that the game is perfect or anything, especially since it is neither complete nor have I played through all the available material.

But...Here's the thing. Just about every obstacle has some sort of improvement or solution available once you have explored enough, researched enough, progressed enough. I know some of the those changes have been relatively recent like with everyone's 'loving friend'.

And additional changes will continue to happen until we are feature and sector complete. If I have had an issue fighting an enemy, I was doing something wrong and not using the tools available to me in the best way, or at all if I had discounted it for some reason or another.

At least for me, part of the fun has been the game gently leading me to the answer, I then ignored the answer or got distracted. And then continue to bash my head against a wall until I have the "Eureka!" moment.

Also, as a general question, do you have to 'complete a portal' (in that you made it to the end portal and returned back home) for the enemies there to start spawning as base raids, or just have entered the portal world at all?