Gravity Cube and Sigil of the Hearth

[Toyoch]

Now that Marion sells the Gravity Cube in exchange with a Sigil of the Hearth, I think there could be a infinite source of Sigil of Hearth, in case Simple Loot Respawning cannot be enabled(or it fails to get cubes to spawn), or accidentally lose the sigil.

[CombatWombat]

And the pressure for unlimited everything continues.

[Monokuma]

Originally posted by CombatWombat:

And the pressure for unlimited everything continues.

As long as it's possible to accidentally lock yourself out of an item for the rest of the save, there should be fallbacks. Before the trade for the cube, that fallback was that there are more sigils than typically necessary for a playthrough from all the order chests. Now it's possible that a friend group accidentally trades away the last sigil in the game trying to make sure there's a cube for everyone.

Just put an order chest in a portal world, really. You still have to get the key.

[CombatWombat]

Originally posted by Monokuma:

Originally posted by CombatWombat:

And the pressure for unlimited everything continues.

As long as it's possible to accidentally lock yourself out of an item for the rest of the save, there should be fallbacks. Before the trade for the cube, that fallback was that there are more sigils than typically necessary for a playthrough from all the order chests. Now it's possible that a friend group accidentally trades away the last sigil in the game trying to make sure there's a cube for everyone.

Just put an order chest in a portal world, really. You still have to get the key.

The cube already respawns.

[Monokuma]

Originally posted by CombatWombat:

The cube already respawns.

The sigil does not.
And the cube respawning is not exactly consistent. I've never had it respawn in any of my playthroughs.

[MechWarden]

The cube respawning is rare. In my co-op group, there was some rejoicing when one showed up as we went through the Lab area.

[fireboon269]

Originally posted by CombatWombat:

Originally posted by Monokuma:

As long as it's possible to accidentally lock yourself out of an item for the rest of the save, there should be fallbacks. Before the trade for the cube, that fallback was that there are more sigils than typically necessary for a playthrough from all the order chests. Now it's possible that a friend group accidentally trades away the last sigil in the game trying to make sure there's a cube for everyone.

Just put an order chest in a portal world, really. You still have to get the key.

The cube already respawns.

yeah, i've waited for several weeks in game, including spending several nights on and off through the sector so it's loaded. I have NEVER seen the cube, or shotgun respawn.

like everyone else has pointed out, it's not hard to make items rare by hiding them in portal worlds. hell, lock it behind fishing even, give it a reason to exist, make a fishing trader or something to redeem scales or meat or something.

[CombatWombat]

I'm all for not getting blocked from progress. But you guys have to acknowledge that rarity is sometimes a value of its own. If everything is widely available it all becomes boring and meaningless. When did you last think about or value metal scrap?

If you make everything readily available and/or strip all work from acquireing it, you make it all boring and meaningless in the end. A game to rush through and forget in the end.

The anomalies are supposed to be unique, it is already borderline immersion braking that they respawn. (Although I appreciate this feature for not get progress blocked)

[Monokuma]

Originally posted by CombatWombat:

I'm all for not getting blocked from progress. But you guys have to acknowledge that rarity is sometimes a value of its own. If everything is widely available it all becomes boring and meaningless. When did you last think about or value metal scrap?

If you make everything readily available and/or strip all work from acquireing it, you make it all boring and meaningless in the end. A game to rush through and forget in the end.

The anomalies are supposed to be unique, it is already borderline immersion braking that they respawn. (Although I appreciate this feature for not get progress blocked)

What are you even talking about? This is a problem of an item being able to be completely removed from a save without any recovery method.

The Sigil isn't even unique, there's 6 (that I know of) of them in the game to begin with.

Scrap's a false equivalency as well. That's a crafting material. Trinkets have use directly attached to the item itself.

Nor does this make anything in the game "readily available / strip all work from acquiring it". Did you even read this thread before you started responding? There's already an explicit trade for the cube in the game in exchange for the sigils. However, the sigils are a limited resource while the cube itself respawns (allegedly.) So you're trading a non-renewable for a renewable. That's outright bad game design, especially for multiplayer sessions where
A: The group does not know they have the last Sigil in the save
B: Due to poor communication, the last Sigil is traded away on the assumption another player still has one in their inventory.

It's like arguing you shouldn't be able to craft hexwood hammers because that would devalue the rarity of the fixed spawn count of hammers in a save.

[MechWarden]

Hmm, 6 Sigil of the Hearth, a co-op game with up to 6* players.
Coincidence? I think not!
(*ignoring dedicated servers)

I think it isn't a tall ask for getting more Sigil of the Hearth in some way. Heck, I'd assume you could get more given that you can get by trading them for for more Gravity Cubes, which do respawn... eventually. Also you can trade a 'renewable' Lodestone for a 'one of a kind' 'I.S. grade' Antique Shotgun!

I'd imagine we'd get an Order based trader, and the Sigil of the Hearth issue will be settled.

Honestly, I think Marion maybe looting our world as if it were any other Portal World that resets. But that leaves the question of how does he get out of the time loop and trade us back copies of our own stuff?!

[CombatWombat]

Originally posted by Monokuma:

Originally posted by CombatWombat:

Did you even read this thread before you started responding?

https://steamcommunity.com/app/427410/discussions/0/591766810822458554/?tscn=1743017999#c591766810822460046

Originally posted by MechWarden:

Hmm, 6 Sigil of the Hearth, a co-op game with up to 6* players.

I agree that some items like the cube should be available for every person in a group. But the antique shotgun is a perfect example that actually could be unique. It does not hurt a team if only one has it, there are enough other weapons people could use and it is actually more efficient if everyone uses a different weapon anyway for ammo reason.

[Monokuma]

Originally posted by CombatWombat:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/427410/discussions/0/591766810822458554/?tscn=1743017999#c591766810822460046

So no then.

[Rae Nidae]

Originally posted by CombatWombat:

I'm all for not getting blocked from progress. But you guys have to acknowledge that rarity is sometimes a value of its own. If everything is widely available it all becomes boring and meaningless. When did you last think about or value metal scrap?

If you make everything readily available and/or strip all work from acquireing it, you make it all boring and meaningless in the end. A game to rush through and forget in the end.

Items being both rare and non-finite are not mutually exclusive concepts.

To this day I've STILL never seen the Porcelain Tablet item, because it's a 3% drop chance off an enemy that's already fairly scarce as is; and yet, any item that drops off an enemy isn't finite, because all enemies eventually respawn.

[dr46onfusion]

Originally posted by MechWarden:

Hmm, 6 Sigil of the Hearth, a co-op game with up to 6* players.
Coincidence? I think not!
(*ignoring dedicated servers)

I think it isn't a tall ask for getting more Sigil of the Hearth in some way. Heck, I'd assume you could get more given that you can get by trading them for for more Gravity Cubes, which do respawn... eventually. Also you can trade a 'renewable' Lodestone for a 'one of a kind' 'I.S. grade' Antique Shotgun!

I'd imagine we'd get an Order based trader, and the Sigil of the Hearth issue will be settled.

Honestly, I think Marion maybe looting our world as if it were any other Portal World that resets. But that leaves the question of how does he get out of the time loop and trade us back copies of our own stuff?!

There is a Order NPC who was at the surface tunnel, but apparently never seemed to show up anymore that I've noticed (up till hydroplant).

He's a 'RAT' who cares about his own safety to try to escape so maybe he'll be a viable vendor. Hasta Tria.

I wouldn't be surprised if a splinter group of the Order allies with humanity under a united goal to survive or something, would actually be interesting to have armed soldiers as guards.

And I wonder if this game is going to have the story spin off in a funny way, with every NG+ turning into a different challenge than the last (Because you keep changing things by your actions every playthrough, it becomes different in the next)?

[ganthritor42]

The gravity cube definitely respawns, I have at least three trinkets made and two or three cubes just chillin' in storage at the moment--I have not altered any item stuff from default lol.

Idk if it's bc of how we specifically travel to go to the Furniture Store, which is basically the long way lol. Port or tram in by the aquariums and walk through C block and into Helmholtz. Instead of any of the other more efficient options lol.

[MechWarden]

Originally posted by Kai:

...
There is a Order NPC who was at the surface tunnel, but apparently never seemed to show up anymore that I've noticed (up till hydroplant).

He's a 'RAT' who cares about his own safety to try to escape so maybe he'll be a viable vendor. Hasta Tria.
...

Given the teasers in the trailer, it's guaranteed we'll get an Order trader (traitor?) of some kind.

Originally posted by ganthritor42:

The gravity cube definitely respawns, I have at least three trinkets made and two or three cubes just chillin' in storage at the moment--I have not altered any item stuff from default lol.

Idk if it's bc of how we specifically travel to go to the Furniture Store, which is basically the long way lol. Port or tram in by the aquariums and walk through C block and into Helmholtz. Instead of any of the other more efficient options lol.

If I recall right, the devs literally put in a respawn thing for it, since it is so popular and handy to have. It is very slow, and it keeps the thing rare, but not too rare. You do kind of have to put some work into it.

Now that I think about it, the Cube has stopped spawning in after everyone (all 6) has gotten one. Not sure if that's intended or not.