Heavy weapons seem really lackluster for their requirements

[Limdood]

Melee is already rough....usually a resource-preserving option rather than a main strategy. The disparity in the THREE weapon types, though is pretty significant.

Sharp tend to swing fast, do respectable damage, are required to dismantle bodies, and are very precise. For almost anyone, these weapons will be the clear choice to use.

Blunt tend to do the same or only SLIGHTLY higher damage than sharp. They swing in an arc usually, which is nice for breaking crates, but makes precise shots on enemies more difficult (possible, but hardER than a spear). They also only have standard reach vs. the spear's extended reach. There only other benefit i've found is that the fire hammer fire persists, while the fire spear doesn't (though i've burned myself breaking crates FAR more than I've burned enemies with the enduring fire).

Then there's heavy weapons....With a backloaded swing, timing and aiming is MUCH harder than other weapons. MANY times I've swung at an order soldier's head from right next to them, only for them to turn and sprint away right before it landed. The damage is roughly double, but the swings are also half the speed. Then there's the fact that you need strength 8(!!!) in order to use one with any competence. You'll unlock the first one long before you hit strength 8, and unless you're sitting and grinding strength, many people won't ever get the prerequisite. None of the other melee weapons have prerequisite stats, and the ranged weapons that do (the military ones) have significant benefits to compensate.

In summary:

Blunt:
= baseline

Sharp:
+ reach
+ dismantle bodies

Heavy:
= same dps
- hefty skill requirement
- backloaded swing causes misses and inaccuracy

Heavy weapons need a significant buff to adjust for their skill requirement. How they feel WITH strength 8 now feels to me like how they should be working WITHOUT strength 8+. Good burst damage, but tough to time with no other benefits. WITH strength 8 the hit should happen on a shorter animation. If the hit was only 1.5 times as long, with the hit landing earlier in the animation, and the damage was something like 1.8 times as high, it might feel more worth it....something like 20% more damage over blunt/sharp, and a higher initial hit, at the cost of not being able to dismantle bodies, needing 8 strength, and having a BIT more delay than the faster swinging sharp/blunt.

[Xirce]

I haven't tested it yet, but funnily enough, it looks like you swing Heavy Weapons faster *without* having the level 8 Strength perk. Maybe it does way less damage but that seems kind of insane to me.
I really want to use Heavy Weapons, but they are simply not worth it. They don't deal enough damage for how slow they are to swing.
At the very least, I would prefer the Heavy Weapon to do a large sweep attack rather than the big swing down motion you do in the game currently.

[Anker]

Heavy weapons are barely, technically usable in their current state. I wouldn't recommend anyone use one, ever, as they are. They'd barely be an even tradeoff if they did twice as much damage as the same equivilant weapons, twice as slow- But they don't even do that much damage. At least that would have some value for stealth attacks.

[Monokuma]

I never used heavy weapons in their current implementation, and the person I was playing with explicitly leveled strength assuming that the perk would at least reduce the horrifically slow build-up time to swing them. Between that and the fact that the peccary club is pretty much entirely worthless by the time you'd get strength that high to begin with, I think they should rework both the location and implementation of the perk. I'd even take a damage nerf across the board to accommodate the removal of the mandatory swing period.

[Anker]

Originally posted by Monokuma:

I'd even take a damage nerf across the board to accommodate the removal of the mandatory swing period.

If a heavy weapon doesn't do damage, then what DOES it do over a blunt weapon?

[Quagimus Decimus]

Being a heavy user myself the ability to potentially one shot some mobs with a heavy weapon outweighs trying to run around constantly to get hits in.

I love sharp weapons for immediate accuracy of aiming for critical hits, and I always carry a chef knife for butchering.

The regular blunt weapons I can't say I like too many of them in general when edged whens do everything better in general. However heavy weapons do make an impact depending on the situation, mob, and density of the fight.

[Anker]

Blunt weapons also get a power attack. Does that not do more damage per hit then heavy weapons, but are also usable outside of stealth attacks?

[Monokuma]

Originally posted by Anker:

Originally posted by Monokuma:

I'd even take a damage nerf across the board to accommodate the removal of the mandatory swing period.

If a heavy weapon doesn't do damage, then what DOES it do over a blunt weapon?

It would still do more damage than a heavy weapon of the same "zone" tier, it's just that removing the swing delay would make the current heavy weapons overpowered.

Edit: Mostly, my main problem with the swing delay is the same main problem I have with the scrap pistol; I can't charge it up ahead of time and that makes it feel really clunky. Since normal blunt weapons can already be charged up, heavy weapons already don't feel unique enough to warrant how unwieldy they are. We need sharp heavy weapons as well, right now heavy weapons just feel like a worse blunt skill tree option.

[wireframes]

Heavy weapons also cannot be used with a shield, another downside.

[jbwjr]

Originally posted by Limdood:

Melee is already rough....usually a resource-preserving option rather than a main strategy. The disparity in the THREE weapon types, though is pretty significant.

Sharp tend to swing fast, do respectable damage, are required to dismantle bodies, and are very precise. For almost anyone, these weapons will be the clear choice to use.

Blunt tend to do the same or only SLIGHTLY higher damage than sharp. They swing in an arc usually, which is nice for breaking crates, but makes precise shots on enemies more difficult (possible, but hardER than a spear). They also only have standard reach vs. the spear's extended reach. There only other benefit i've found is that the fire hammer fire persists, while the fire spear doesn't (though i've burned myself breaking crates FAR more than I've burned enemies with the enduring fire).

Then there's heavy weapons....With a backloaded swing, timing and aiming is MUCH harder than other weapons. MANY times I've swung at an order soldier's head from right next to them, only for them to turn and sprint away right before it landed. The damage is roughly double, but the swings are also half the speed. Then there's the fact that you need strength 8(!!!) in order to use one with any competence. You'll unlock the first one long before you hit strength 8, and unless you're sitting and grinding strength, many people won't ever get the prerequisite. None of the other melee weapons have prerequisite stats, and the ranged weapons that do (the military ones) have significant benefits to compensate.

In summary:

Blunt:
= baseline

Sharp:
+ reach
+ dismantle bodies

Heavy:
= same dps
- hefty skill requirement
- backloaded swing causes misses and inaccuracy

Heavy weapons need a significant buff to adjust for their skill requirement. How they feel WITH strength 8 now feels to me like how they should be working WITHOUT strength 8+. Good burst damage, but tough to time with no other benefits. WITH strength 8 the hit should happen on a shorter animation. If the hit was only 1.5 times as long, with the hit landing earlier in the animation, and the damage was something like 1.8 times as high, it might feel more worth it....something like 20% more damage over blunt/sharp, and a higher initial hit, at the cost of not being able to dismantle bodies, needing 8 strength, and having a BIT more delay than the faster swinging sharp/blunt.

Just a bit of For the Record note, The Order Troopers are vulnerable to Sharp Weapons, are any of the heavy weapons Sharp? That Club you unlock might be cus it looks like it has teeth, but im willing to bet they are BLUNT weapons.

Also iv noticed when I shoot the troopers in the head, they drop a helmet so maybe thats why it won't kill them? And thats with the possibly of a SNEAK attack if you manage to pull that off.

[DuckieMcduck]

If the heavy let you charge the swing like the 1 handed does I'd love using it way more

[Crochwhisle purple]

Originally posted by Xirce:

I haven't tested it yet, but funnily enough, it looks like you swing Heavy Weapons faster *without* having the level 8 Strength perk. Maybe it does way less damage but that seems kind of insane to me.
I really want to use Heavy Weapons, but they are simply not worth it. They don't deal enough damage for how slow they are to swing.
At the very least, I would prefer the Heavy Weapon to do a large sweep attack rather than the big swing down motion you do in the game currently.

no you swing way slower with strength lower than 8

[Crochwhisle purple]

tip if you love heavy weapons and can`t switch to something actually good is that you can press lmb and then start running or jumping or whatever, Kinda like with the scrap pistol how it has a big delay, but there it`s way shorter and you don`t get to do much while firing. best way to use both is to either pop outta cover and hit them fast, or exploit the melee attacks where they start running at you or are stuck in it

[Bonkers]

Originally posted by Crochwhisle purple:

tip if you love heavy weapons and can`t switch to something actually good is that you can press lmb and then start running or jumping or whatever, Kinda like with the scrap pistol how it has a big delay, but there it`s way shorter and you don`t get to do much while firing. best way to use both is to either pop outta cover and hit them fast, or exploit the melee attacks where they start running at you or are stuck in it

Since the latest update, the scrap pistol has become much more usable btw. The delay was only changed from 0.5 seconds to 0.3 seconds, but it feels like much more than that and makes a world of difference.

[ULTRA]

Also ackshually blunt weapons should not be as resistible as sharp weapons in general due to their mode of action. Order armor would have to be incredibly heavy and/or bulky to mitigate the damage from a blunt strike so thoroughly. It should be like this:

Blunt weapons: smashing crates, short range, difficult to resist
Sharp weapons: butchering corpses, long range, likely bleeding
Two-handed (heavy) weapons: bonus to large enemies, very long range, both difficult to resist and likely bleeding, but still relatively slower and no shield allowed

[G-Yuki]

Only heavy weapon that's useable is the Explosive Sledge but that itself is not worth the resources for its ammunition.