Remember the times as 1996 C&C Red Alert did sell more then 3 million copies ? Man what did went wrong with the RTS genre ?

[Blitzwing]

Remember the times as 1996 C&C Red Alert did sell more then 3 million copies ?
Man what did went wrong with the RTS genre ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_games

Oh yes the good old times.
Well today a lot of genres still have their sales.
If we look just for sale numbers . Shooters , RPGs,
man even car caring or sport games. Still seem to be intact.


But RTS games ? Well yeah , what happened ?



Is it Warcraft 3 fault that they did invent the MOBA genre ?
Is it Starcraft2 fault , than a lot of developers avoid this genre ?
Or does it require too much Brains for the modern audience, which just want simple stuff.


For an RTS game you have to do more effort than for other games
and even there not so many people buy it after all.




Numbers of RTS players isn't decreasing, if the game is good people buy it anyway.
Starcraft 2 got it 6 million sales.

So why don't we achieve this numbers again ? What are we missing ?
Yes 8bit Armies is there to build up a fan base again, but what's next ?
Ok 8-bit will get some new DLCs, but what next ?

What did the old games from Westwood back in 1996 so great ?
What did Starcraft 2 do , to be still so successful ?

Can we have the good old times back , as each new RTS game was a success ?

Well I really would like to have the gameplay from 8bit armies in a game with Cutscenes , good remember able characters, realistic, but "slight" sci-fi setting.

Actually Red Alert 1, in modern graphics would outmatch any modern game.
But is it really a solution to make a 1996 game , today with modern graphics ?

I really would like to see an Old school game not only returning , but actually to grow up.


Is it possible today to have Tiberian Sun gameplay and Story/Cutscenes, with lot of factions, Starcraft 2 Balance and faction diversity and graphics from Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II: Retribution in same game today?

[ProvenSupreme]

Nobody goes down the computer game isle anymore. Competition isn't light, you got MOBA's also. I'll bet you Super Mario 3 sold more than the new Super Mario Wii's.

[Kai]

The Original RTS did something no one did thus was remembered and has a nostalgia factor.

Also unlike this game which is a 'parody' of sorts drawing back to the classics, it doesn't actually emulate it exactly, nor does it balances it out completely.

The past games focused mainly on micro managing units and effectively preserving your units and funds. Today's RTS is closer to a 'produce then send them to their deaths' sort of gameplay with mild levels of need to micro-manage these units when you get enough funds to produce a few hundred more.

The one factor that made classic C&C games interesting is likely the difficulty:
Your funds isn't infinite, it can run out pretty fast in some missions, and 8 bit armies simulates some of it pretty well, but unit diversity is a bit odd in terms of stats and abilities and the funds needed to produce them enmass.

For instance no point to mass producing mini-gunner if their grouped firing in the original C&C does little to nothing to vehicles, and the AI always sends their harvesters in a road rage to kill your riflemen if you leave them alone to attack something, resulting in loss of units and funds due to attacking units don't move out of the way when being run over.

[[BLA]Unmortal]

Dont know but what Kai says i totaly agree with.

i got hooked on red alert as a kid and difficulties in missions gave me best memorys to deal with and try to proceed true to win the match also money wassent infinite and there was a slow respawn rate for gold income on supply fields but once you minde all the ore to make units the refreshing rate on supply was realy low to the point youre forced to keep a eye on how many units or money you wasted.

meaning more challanges and some of maps in red alert where annoying as hell costing you more to protect a gold field then wanting to.

ive been looking into 8-bit armys and stil i didnt pull out my wallet
its to easy for my feeling

you dont have any real walls to block of areas you want to protect or get extra time with.
you can only enforce building area zone bij extenting buildings in a line.
theres some freedom but youre constructed to a rule set.
game AI seems to be stupid at times.
Shooting at a crowd and 1 dies or gets injured and if out range of the unti doesnt respond.
and probaly some ather points.

you make X amount of that unit group and fight F amount of enemys
Mix match amounts D and E so on,

yes every game has that but most of the gold fields in 8 bit armys are close to you and not a realy big deal to keep or protect if youre eye on the ball XD

anyway ive contineud to play C&C to the point that EA games kinda ruined the flavour of the games i liked and that moment i quit with EA

eventully i also quit with ubisoft

these companys whents into a HIGH gear in 90s today there more about controlling there crowd and getting acces to a digital market what they intresst in and mainstream most games

old legends get recopyied or reinvented in mainstream clothes its like fashion its junk now but its the junk the mainstream audiance wants

meaning all people who like a digital challange are left in the cold of the industry.

but back to 8 - bits its a fair try and 1 im stil wondering about if means any to me.
to buy or not to buy but the game has issues like many athers and the main answer to it all is am i wanting to deal with the issues in this game.

and i keep finding my own answer being NO to buy this game sadly even when i researched a lot its stil a NO

[Blitzwing]

Originally posted by BLAUnmortal:

meaning all people who like a digital challange are left in the cold of the industry.

Actually the best RTS games and games in general are the challenging ones.

Starcraft 2 , Company of Heroes 2 and Supreme commander are good examples.
Or why does have Dark Souls series so huge fan base ?

Its just all about the adequate level of challenge.

For some reason a lot games have been so dumbed down, it's an insult to call them games.

Originally posted by BLAUnmortal:

and i keep finding my own answer being NO to buy this game

why ? Its a good and challenging PVP game, finally something about strategy not APM.
If you play vs a good player it's a nice challenge.

It does make me a lot of fun to find a worthy opponent.

[💢𝓐ℓ ¢нємιѕт💢]

RTS genre hasn't gone anywhere. There aren't just good RTS developers working these days.


This almost 2 decades old game is still top played RTS game on Steam. (Also in top 10 selling games under $5)

Current players
11,042 18,432 Age of Empires II: HD Edition


That's not counting the thousands of players who play it in third party platforms.

People like me have been looking for new RTS games that can replace the old ones we still play. They just don't make them like they used to.

[TGHoly]

There're plenty reason most developer didn't want to make RTS anymore [specialize traditional one] because.

- Impossible standard Starcraft 2 setup make it hard to developer to make new RTS that appearl to player.

- RTS didn't play well on console.

- Player want to jump straigh into action by not building the base.

But yeah I also love to have RTS game like 8 bit with better graphic and background setting.

[Blitzwing]

Originally posted by Holy_Terra:

There're plenty reason most developer didn't want to make RTS anymore [specialize traditional one] because.

- Impossible standard Starcraft 2 setup make it hard to developer to make new RTS that appearl to player.

- RTS didn't play well on console.

- Player want to jump straigh into action by not building the base.

But yeah I also love to have RTS game like 8 bit with better graphic and background setting. [/quote]

Originally posted by Al Chemist:

RTS genre hasn't gone anywhere. There aren't just good RTS developers working these days.


This almost 2 decades old game is still top played RTS game on Steam. (Also in top 10 selling games under $5)

Current players
11,042 18,432 Age of Empires II: HD Edition


That's not counting the thousands of players who play it in third party platforms.

People like me have been looking for new RTS games that can replace the old ones we still play. They just don't make them like they used to.

Actually most RTS developers have been liquidated.


Blizzard Entertainment did merge with Activision and Vivendi Universal Games.
Thats a lot of RTS IPs down, because why make one if you have Starcraft 2.

Just an List: Activision
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Activision_video_games
Dark Reign series.
NetStorm: Islands At War
Battlezone Series
Star Trek: Armada Series

Microsoft did for some reasons abandon their
Age of Empires /Mythology, Rise of Nations Series.

Massive Entertainment = Ground Control and World in Conflict
Are forced by Ubisoft to do stupid shooters.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Creative Assembly are good developers, but stuck in "Total War" Limbo.
Stormrise could have been perhaps one of the best RTS ever made, but there was just 1 guy who forced them to make broken game controls, sadly he was fired too late.
So they are stuck on "Total War" Limbo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Assembly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormrise

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Electronic Arts, voted for the worst Company in USA,
did kill of a lot of RTS Series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Arts


Bullfrog Productions: Populous/ Dungeon Keeper
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullfrog_Productions

Westwood Studios: Dune /C&C
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westwood_Studios

EA Phenomic: SpellForce series
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA_Phenomic


Melbourne House : Krush, Kill ’n’ Destroy Series
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KKnD_(video_game)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see, from big developers only are left.

Relic stuck in (Warhammer/WW2) Limbo.

Russian game Studios stuck in (WW2 and Cossacks) Limbo.

Eugen Systems stuck in (Wargame) Limbo.
Eugen Systems did make one Act of War and RUSE.

Petroglyph Games stuck in (weird experiments games) Limbo.
Petroglyph Games did make once Star Wars - Empire at War.

[N a v y 3 0 0 1]

"Is it Warcraft 3 fault that they did invent the MOBA genre ?"

funfact - Starcraft: Brood war created the first moba

[Deathsnake]

Yea it's sad :( I don't buy those 8bit RTS (sorry Petro). But would buy another C&C.

How about a future C&C you don't call Command & Conquer. But a cool RTS with Basebuilding and getting Ressources with good grafics? Start a Kickstarter Campaign with a few missions to show the Comm how you want make it and tell we need (??) 2-4 Millions.

I have all good RTS Titles. Some still Retail, some on GOG, Origin and Steam.
Like all C&C, AoE, Star and Warcraft, Grey Goo, SW Empire at War, Empire Earth, KKND, Homeworld, Dawn of War, Dune (/bow), Ruse, Wargame, Sudden Strike, Blitzkrieg, ST Armada 1+2, Ground Control, World in Conflict, Earth 2140-2160. Just go back to those Titles...
In todays Gamestar Video they talk about Halo Wars 2 and how a company should make one classics and not another Shooter, RPG or MMO!!!

https://youtu.be/R0HCu4mwNtA

[Blitzwing]

Originally posted by Deathsnake:

Yea it's sad :( I don't buy those 8bit RTS (sorry Petro). But would buy another C&C.

How about a future C&C you don't call Command & Conquer. But a cool RTS with Basebuilding and getting Ressources with good grafics? Start a Kickstarter Campaign with a few missions to show the Comm how you want make it and tell we need (??) 2-4 Millions.

I have all good RTS Titles. Some still Retail, some on GOG, Origin and Steam.
Like all C&C, AoE, Star and Warcraft, Grey Goo, SW Empire at War, Empire Earth, KKND, Homeworld, Dawn of War, Dune (/bow), Ruse, Wargame, Sudden Strike, Blitzkrieg, ST Armada 1+2, Ground Control, World in Conflict, Earth 2140-2160. Just go back to those Titles...
In todays Gamestar Video they talk about Halo Wars 2 and how a company should make one classics and not another Shooter, RPG or MMO!!!

https://youtu.be/R0HCu4mwNtA

Kickstarter and Early Access games did so far just disappoint people. Can you Tell me just 1 game that did make it ? Exactly.

After such huge epic fail like : Planetary Annihilation, Act Of Aggression and Servo, I am pretty sure people would not risk another time. Servo from former Age of Empires maker is right now dead. Act Of Aggression from Act of War/RUSE/Wargame makers promised to bring C&C back, but they did totally miss the point by their both versions. And most horribly game is Planetary Annihilation, promised to bring back game form 1998 Total Annihilation, did reach all the stretch goals and did receive a lot of money from early access. Still, the game from 1998 is far superior to that bad copy and not to mention all the broken promises.

If C&C is going to come back, no Kickstarter and Early Access!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Simple reason: People would not pay enough on Kickstarter or Early Access,
they have been just to often disappointed.

----------------------------------------------


Even there how hard can it be ? 8 Bit gameplay in an 10 years old engine like Universe at War: Earth Assault and you have already your C&C.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsi1c1VsQ6w

[Noodlesocks]

Nobody seems particularly interested in making a really good, well rounded RTS game. They tend to focus on one aspect while neglecting other parts of a game. Singleplayer is probably the most important factor of a RTS' success. Sure, it's easy to say multiplayer is where the best experience is but most RTS players only play singleplayer or they play with just their friends. Sadly it's usually the most neglected part of modern RTS games as the developers try to chase Starcraft's fame with a multiplayer focus. A good story and good singleplayer game modes can do a lot for a RTS game.

There's also been pretty much no innovation in the genre in decades. Sure there have been quality of life improvements over the years but while genres like FPS and RPG have embraced new ideas and utilising ideas from other genres, RTS is largely the same games they were way back then and I personally believe it could do with looking at how other genres have evolved and incorporating such ideas in to the RTS genre.

[Blitzwing]

1 best way to explain kick starter games^^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJQC0va2LX8

Originally posted by Noodlesocks:

Nobody seems particularly interested in making a really good, well rounded RTS game. They tend to focus on one aspect while neglecting other parts of a game. Singleplayer is probably the most important factor of a RTS' success. Sure, it's easy to say multiplayer is where the best experience is but most RTS players only play singleplayer or they play with just their friends. Sadly it's usually the most neglected part of modern RTS games as the developers try to chase Starcraft's fame with a multiplayer focus. A good story and good singleplayer game modes can do a lot for a RTS game.

There's also been pretty much no innovation in the genre in decades. Sure there have been quality of life improvements over the years but while genres like FPS and RPG have embraced new ideas and utilising ideas from other genres, RTS is largely the same games they were way back then and I personally believe it could do with looking at how other genres have evolved and incorporating such ideas in to the RTS genre.

2 Nobody ?
What about Blizzard and their Starcraft 2 ?

What about WARSHIFT ?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/392580/?l=german


What about Brutal Legend ?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/225260/?l=german

3 I would say biggest problem is the marketing and developing.
By Shooter or RPG you know what the game is about.


In shooter developer can simply give you some weapons so you run, hide and shoot.
Strategy, not only you, but also the developer has to turn his brain on. And its even more hardcore. Because you have the ability to do something developer did not expect.

So by RTS games, if you want to make it right, you have to look even some month later how people actually do play your game and adjust their behaviour, so they don't exploit cheap moves.

And that's the thing, most publishers to cut the game exactly there the support, where the actual development by RTS does start. Look even Starcraft, even that master piece did require more than a year for Addon Brood War to fix its balance.

[Draco]

Originally posted by Noodlesocks:

Nobody seems particularly interested in making a really good, well rounded RTS game. They tend to focus on one aspect while neglecting other parts of a game. Singleplayer is probably the most important factor of a RTS' success. Sure, it's easy to say multiplayer is where the best experience is but most RTS players only play singleplayer or they play with just their friends. Sadly it's usually the most neglected part of modern RTS games as the developers try to chase Starcraft's fame with a multiplayer focus. A good story and good singleplayer game modes can do a lot for a RTS game.

There's also been pretty much no innovation in the genre in decades. Sure there have been quality of life improvements over the years but while genres like FPS and RPG have embraced new ideas and utilising ideas from other genres, RTS is largely the same games they were way back then and I personally believe it could do with looking at how other genres have evolved and incorporating such ideas in to the RTS genre.

The problem is that the complete RTS package is a huge capital intensive project to do. You have to go big or go home, and many teams wisely decide to cut their game down so it can do at least 1 thing right. Too many chase the mp crowd though, and they can't all be successful, seems a bit silly to try.