It's too much!

[Tribal44]

The game is fine, but after a few shells , i am asking myself, what's the point ?
If every items can be lost in 3 sec because (so many reason) ... it's not friendly at all.

And doing the same thing again and again is not fun, either it s too easy, or too hard, but not really challenging . ( i experienced only the 3-4 first level)

Idk, it s like playing a game without save ... so upgrade + no save don't really go well together.
Could be better if items had durability, need repair (at very high cost), or randomly drop on death .
At least money could be used for something.

Same goes for UC, (for repairing rare stuff, or revive shell) because buying storage hmmm.

The game is ok, but player are pushed to be super cautious, leech, etc, or play on map with little risk (and then noobs are struggling to keep the pace, not killing anything, because 1 or 2 players are cleaning the map)

[Tribal44]

or going on higher level map with poor shell, to get some "free stuff" , but it s not better

[Suguri]

I somewhat agree.

The way this game's permadeath mechanics seems to make it so that you are punished too much for trying to learn on the higher level maps imo.
It makes it harder to experiment in the map where you will inevitably die on the first attempt because you're forced to refarm all the gear and stats or else do leeching runs like you've mentioned in huge groups.

The entire process can be a little frustrating and repetitive causing some people to quit.

Although permadeath in my opinion is a core feature of this game, so I am not sure what they could change without compromising that or whether enough people feel it is even the case for something to change.

[Infinite Solutions]

Personally, I think a way to help this is make it so each shell saves its stats when you reach mk 2, 3, etc.. So, for example, if you reach mk 2 on ironclad, from now on when you make ironclad shells, it starts at a base mk 2. You still lose all your gear, but at least when you die, its not as much of a massive loss, esspecially with the higher level shells. Obviously they would nerf stat boost drops quite a bit in order to compensate. This would also give a real sense of progression.

Personally, I found this game to be really fun for the first 2-3 levels of dungeons, but later on it just becomes TOO frustrating when you die. I try to save up 2 sets of gear (although, when I die I will lose all my exotic gear and my implant slot, so my backup set is already a bit worse off), but then I'm back at mk 1 and I have to farm tier 1, tier 2, etc. dungeons just for the stat gains (I don't think anyone would want to go into a higher level dungeon as a duskwing with 50 hp and base armor lol).

Then again, this kind of change might drive away a lot of the people that like the current harsh permadeath. This game is pretty fun overall, it's just not very enjoyable at the higher levels (mk 4+).

[Shrapnel110]

Assuming the Devs find the current system unsatisfactory:

One alternative could be total gear loss, but halving each stat category (or even more, especially in the Elite portals.) Gives a bit of a progression safety net, still has some edge to it by punishing frequent failures.

If you really want, you could also let them keep gear, but make it lose one or more bonus modifiers(or be replaced by any appropriate lower-tier gear) upon death. Of course, gear and boost drops could be made rarer in response as well.

[Grumpy]

Just downvote and move on. The dev have offered no changes to the current game and it isn't even that deep if you did get through without dying. Taking all of 40 min to beat from stage 1. The constant deaths are just to hide how shallow and short the game is.

[Sorenthaz]

Imo there should be a way to save stat tiers without using Shell Storage. Even if it costs a good amount of EC, that would be perfectly fine in my book.

I.e. you get a shell to Mk2, then spend 1000 EC to encode your shell's data. When you die on that shell and make a new shell of that same type, it starts with fully filled out Mk1 stats so you can jump right into working on Mk2 content if you choose to. Or at the very least you can do a quick jog through Mk1 content to get some decent gear for doing Mk2 afterwards.

EC prices could vary between Mks, so saving a filled out Mk1 could cost 500 EC, filled out Mk2 could cost 1000, etc. Or whatever's a fair price that would require some effort but would pay off in the long run due to saving your shell's stats. But it would be on a per-shell basis so ultimately it would still cost quite a bit to get all of your shells up to permanent Mk2 status for example.

[Drizzle]

Originally posted by Sorenthaz:

Imo there should be a way to save stat tiers without using Shell Storage. Even if it costs a good amount of EC, that would be perfectly fine in my book.

I.e. you get a shell to Mk2, then spend 1000 EC to encode your shell's data. When you die on that shell and make a new shell of that same type, it starts with fully filled out Mk1 stats so you can jump right into working on Mk2 content if you choose to. Or at the very least you can do a quick jog through Mk1 content to get some decent gear for doing Mk2 afterwards.

EC prices could vary between Mks, so saving a filled out Mk1 could cost 500 EC, filled out Mk2 could cost 1000, etc. Or whatever's a fair price that would require some effort but would pay off in the long run due to saving your shell's stats. But it would be on a per-shell basis so ultimately it would still cost quite a bit to get all of your shells up to permanent Mk2 status for example.

A good weapon in a secret shop already costs 12k EC...
Not to mention a proto stonebow is like 54k EC

[Serrated Sabre]

Well, when you die, you gotta ask yourself, "What got me killed?" Was it not knowing enemy and boss patterns and movements? Did you get greedy on the offense and try to kill the enemy before it fires a shot at you?
Or was it forgetting to note the how the other players are doing? Is that group of 15 players now a group of 4 half HP characters still getting hit by enemy attacks? That would probably not be the best time to try the boss, unless you feel confident soloing it.

There's a lot of risk management involved in making decisions in this game, which partly why I like it so much. Gotta learn when to push yourself, back off, or go all in. As such, I don't even mind the loss of gear on death, as I usually stash stuff for my next character. Stats can be regained relatviely quickly. Getting better at the game is what is going to persist between all your deaths, and that's something that can't be taken away from you.

[MunchieDog]

Have you guys never played super mario or any old school game where you don't have infinite lives/continues? The point is to get as far as you can and you learn the maps the hard way.

[megaerik00]

I REALLY want to like this game. Great platforming,good difficulty, loot, just awesome. But with the constant do-overs, it's hard to stay interested. For awhile, i would alternate between my 2 favorite shells, play wildfire and gear for my ironclad, die, play ironclad while gearing for wildfire repeat. That added some longevity to the game. But without saved gear, OR stats, I just can't devote the time (or money) to this otherwise great game. Personnaly, I'd love to see worn gear stay after death, still loosing anything else carried. Keeps the progression, keeps the fear of death, plus increases the desire to buy more stash slots.

One game that did it right was "Salt and Santuary", brutal platforming fun with stiff death penalties, but you keep your loot/progress. Dying just slows your advancment. You folks should check it out. I havent fired Starbreak up since i bought Salt and Sanctuary.

[MunchieDog]

You realize you have a storage system in Starbreak, you don't lose EVERYTHING. You aren't successful in the game so you don't like it, not a real reason to promote another game on this forum, Mega.

[megaerik00]

I know Chris, but worn items are still lost, so yeah you keep items in your stash, but you risk losing them everytime you want to use them. Not a good solution imho. I promoted the other game for two reasons, to showcase how to walk the line between progression and death penalties, and to spread my enjoyment to others. Thanks for the feedback though.

[MunchieDog]

Not a good solution? You are clearly missing the point of this game.

[JManOTG]

Go play contra hard corps for sega genesis to train up if you can beat that you can definitely get through this game

[megaerik00]

I get that it's a roguelike. But other roguelikes still offer progression through death. Rogue Legacy for one, which is loved by many. All i am saying, is that this game would be worth my time, and other's like me, if it had some meaningful progression after death. And no, unworn gear collecting dust in your stash does not count.

Also, love me some contra. It's not a matter of getting through this game, it's a question of why keep playing. Again, these are all opinions, but i assure you, I am not alone.