How complex is the bouyancy/sinking simulation?

[zantar429]

I just wanted to say that I've been really enjoying this game and very impressed that a ported phone game is so good.

I'm hoping maybe the devs will comment on how complex the modeling of the sinking of ships is. They seem to sink in unique ways depending on where they were damaged. Sometimes they sink like a stone and then there was just now I sank the Bismarck and I swear she took 5 minutes or more just to fully submerge and then it hung there very near the surface for a very long time. It really seems like the program is calculating the ongoing flooding of compartments and even trapped air.

I really look forward to further games in this series.

[riggithai]

The devs had mentioned in a previous thread that the bouyancy/sinking is quite complex.

I had a wonderful time watching a merchant ship gradually settling, finally going bows up and sliding backwards to the cold dark depths. Took some turns after I decided that more shooting was just wasting nubitions.

[shennong]

There's definitely a multi-compartment flooding simulation happening, whether or not hits are at or below the waterline matters a lot, etc. It looks more fleshed out than the rather schematic and never-quite-completed Silent Hunter flooding models.

[Vamandrac]

Be neat if pieces actually fell off the ships as they sank, but I know it is limited.

[riggithai]

I have noticed that destroyers' ariel masts can be knocked skew-whiff during combat. Whether this inhibits their ability to call Air Strikes, I dodn't know.

[Killerfish Games]

Silent Hunter III + Natural Sinking Mechanics Mod was a big inspiration for Atlantic Fleet. After seeing how naturally those ships looked doing down we vowed that if we ever did a naval game that our ships would sink like that... so we did :)

From the SimHQ Review of Atlantic Fleet:[www.simhq.com]
“The ships are all made up of individual compartments with subsystems assigned to them which take damage depending on where a shell hits. Waterline or plunging fire will generally damage compartments causing flooding, and hits along the superstructure will tend to damage ‘soft’ equipment. Compartments that catch on fire may suffer secondary explosions that damage adjacent compartments or even cook off magazines. The hit decals are placed where the hits actually occur,” according to Killerfish co-founder Nils Ducker.

“The ships all sink dynamically because the compartments will always flood differently depending on where you hit them. So there are no hitpoints or canned animations here. Since we already had this basic system since Pacific Fleet and we wanted to add better submarine combat an underwater camera was must-have since pretty much day one. The underwater effects themselves went through several iterations before ending up what you see in the game,” he said.

Not mentioned here is that the damage model also takes into account the projectile striking angle against belt or deck armour.

[zantar429]

I definitely appreciate the attention to detail. Here's hoping that one day you guys make a real time simulation. I like the Silent Hunter games but I've long wished for a simulator that let you command surface ships as well.

[XV104]

It is sooooooooooooo hard to sink a Bismak. When I play custom using 2 nelson against 2 bismak, they all take 1 time more hit than me to get sunk.

I hit them almost every round of shoot, and even 6 hits in 9 for several rounds while they miss at least 1/2 round and only about 1/5 rounds hit more than 3. However, I still get Rodney sunk before sink them all.

I do wondering if Bismark is using 406 and Nelson is using 381

[TheLostPenguin]

One odd thing I've noticed is that ships tend to heel over and eventually capsize away from the direction of incoming fire, which seems a little odd on a consistent basis as I'd expect typically damage and associated flooding to be worse on the side taking all the hits.

Somewhat related to this but far beyond what I think is viable for inclusion in this game would be an option to replay battles immediately afterwards but with the damage modelling for systems/flooding visualised so we could see exactly how the battle progressed and how/why each ship sunk.

[Twelvefield]

The devs say to avoid attacking a ship from both sides at once as you could create a counterflooding scenario that causes the thip to settle rather than tip. I can believe that.

Also, magazine hits seem to be a thing. I had a Luke Skywalker shot with two bombs hitting one of the old German BB's on the very first attack run in the first turn of the battle! One bomb I am guessing hit the magazine since the ship sank. So vertical shots do seem to penetrate top armor. It's really hard to hit those shots with naval guns, but bombers seem to be luckier with it, provided you mark the exact right spot on the ship. Maybe the bomb has to go down the spout? A hole-in-one?

Still, the magazine blowing up seems to generate a large explosion, but not one that vaporizes half the ship like you'd see in Napoleonic naval warfare. The french warship Achille comes to mind.

[shennong]

Postat inițial de TheLostPenguin:

One odd thing I've noticed is that ships tend to heel over and eventually capsize away from the direction of incoming fire, which seems a little odd on a consistent basis as I'd expect typically damage and associated flooding to be worse on the side taking all the hits.

I've only really noticed this in cases where fire has been plunging onto or straddling the target, which makes sense. If you're sure that all your rounds are actually going into the target's near side, sounds like there's something wrong, though.

[XV104]

Postat inițial de Twelvefield:

The devs say to avoid attacking a ship from both sides at once as you could create a counterflooding scenario that causes the thip to settle rather than tip. I can believe that.

Also, magazine hits seem to be a thing. I had a Luke Skywalker shot with two bombs hitting one of the old German BB's on the very first attack run in the first turn of the battle! One bomb I am guessing hit the magazine since the ship sank. So vertical shots do seem to penetrate top armor. It's really hard to hit those shots with naval guns, but bombers seem to be luckier with it, provided you mark the exact right spot on the ship. Maybe the bomb has to go down the spout? A hole-in-one?

Still, the magazine blowing up seems to generate a large explosion, but not one that vaporizes half the ship like you'd see in Napoleonic naval warfare. The french warship Achille comes to mind.

I never blow a battleship's magazine up sucessfully. It seems like that would only happen when much higher caliber gun hit small ships like DD or CL

[TheLostPenguin]

I'd understand things sinking against the greater volume of fire if I was attacking from either side, but that's only usually the case against freighters. Against capital ships I end up either crossing the T and essentially chilling there whilst pounding a barely manouvering/stationary hulk until it sinks, or in essentially a broadside slugfest with both fleets sailing almost parallel but closing towards each other. It's in these situations where much of the damage has been exchanged at comfortably sub 15k yard ranges and entirely focused on one side of a ship that it strikes me as odd when something starts to list away from me.
It does also make me wonder how accurately torpedo belt armor is modelled, and whether hits in that situation deal a greater amount of damage as they almost certainly hit well below what would be expected for a ship on an even keel. Most of the time it doesn't matter as I've yet to encounter anything survive taking 5+ hits, but occasionally I might be reduced to firing partial spreads after an initial miss or when engaging multiple targets.

[Killerfish Games]

Postat inițial de TheLostPenguin:

One odd thing I've noticed is that ships tend to heel over and eventually capsize away from the direction of incoming fire

Good observation. This tends to happen since the belt is protecting the forward edge of the ship. Hits to the deck tend to penetrate farther, do more damage if plunging and can hit across the ship. This can ultimately do more damage to the other side.

At 5,000 yards a point blank salvo into the belt of a BB will almost always capsize it towards the damaged side (magazine explosions can mix things up a bit here).

To sink the Bismarck faster: get inside her immunity zone (~12,000) and pound her belt with 15-16" shells. Might want to silence her main guns first though.

[Mandalore The Reclaimer]

What causes ships to not fully sink? I've had several instances where a ship will rapidly fill with water until it's pulled up to roughly a 90 degree angle, before they settle with just the forward 1/5 or 1/6 of the ship above water and just hang there.

One noteable case the other day was a pair of CL's in the german campaign. One suffered a magazine explosion and sank rapidly, until just the forward part of the bow was straight up in the air and held there. So long that I sank it's partner, watched that sink, and turned around and it was still there floating like a buoy.

Is this a bug or is air being trapped in the forward compartments, without any damage to them?

Just seemed strange, I'd assumed that full they'd be pulled down regardless.

[Killerfish Games]

Its trapped air and the ship should sink eventually. The ship is counted as sunk regardless.
But you can always pop a few more shells at it to sink a floating hulk.