[SPOILERS] Mugen's decision could have been delayed

[ArcaniteJedi]

Spoiler warning: this post discusses heavily details of the game's story, mainly mission 10: mount tsuru. If you haven't reached this point in game do not continue reading.


In this post i like to argue against Mugen's choice to commit seppuku on mount tsuru and how it could have been either delayed or potential avoided.

While thematically appropriate and wholeheartedly gut wrenching(pun not intended), from a gameplay perspective it is I believe not a suitable outcome. It artificial limits player choice specially when we were just getting the whole band all together for missions and started mixing all their strengths and unique skills to form different playstyles.

Story wise, anyone of his companions (Especialy Yuki or Aiko) could change his mind (at least temporary) pointting out the fact that the murderer of the shogun's son and Kage-sama are still a very active threat and while he may have failed in his duty to protect the shogun's son, he has a duty to protect the shogun himself. Taking his life at that moment would essentially be giving up on his loyalty. However, he did fail shogun's son therefore death is(could be) inevitable for him. It just doesn't have to happen at that moment.

He could finish what he started. Defeat Noburo, reveal the truth to his lord and both fulfill his full duty and seek absolution at the end. Or perhaps the shogun may pardon him(if that is a possibility in this situation).

Regardless of him being spared or if he decides to "release himself", in this manner both the player is satisfied gameplay-wise to have the whole gang for the final showdown and thematically appropriate for his character and ark. Honestly at the mission i was thinking any minute now yuki is gonna talk some sense into him and he will start his ronin-esque path of revenge.

tl;dr MUGGEN WHYYY, please bring him back.(maybe Aido's last gift was a secret fake blood bag and retractable knife? a man can hope).

[ch]

(Sorry for my bad english)
I think we're talking about Japanese mentality here. I was thinking the same way as you (btw still not sure what that "last gift" was). But as you can see - no one (except Yuki) tried to stop him. Everyone understand the situation and why he had to do this. Though we, "gaijins", probably will never understand.

[RossenX]

It COULD have been delayed, but honestly i'm surprised he waited as long as he did.
I mean from a traditional stand-point of ancient japanese mentallity and honor. He should've done it much earlier, but that would kinda ruin the amazing scene of him doing it with all the peeps.

Also Aiko's last 'gift' was obviously that she was pregnant with his child.
I mean she calls him her love and they obviously have a thing going from their interactions and voice lines as the story progresses.
As Mugen said "As one ends, another begins" his life ends, his child's life begins.

Oh and yeah she he was about to do it and the wide-screen left the screen i frantically pressed every button on my keyboard to try to stop him. xD I bet i wasn't the only one that did that.

[Sir Dex]

Since this thread is already marked as "SPOILER", I will not censor anything here.

That are exactly my thoughts, OP. He was not only a really good character, but offered also interesting gameplay options. I was really a little bit depressed because I coudln't rely on him later on. I really wanted to play more missions with all five characters and agree with you there.

So a possible solution could be as follows: Releasing a new DLC with 3-5 missions which will start after Mount Tsuru - but one can decide then whether Mugen shall commit seppuku (Blades of the Shogun route) or not (here begins the DLC route). Of course, the new missions must be other than the previous ones (or some at least heavy altered) because with Mugen living, the course of the story will be another one. I think one can get very creative in this case.

So PLEASE devs, at least think about this idea if you would decide to make some DLCs!

[RossenX]

Oh don't worry i'm sure if/ when they release DLC and more missions that there will be a Samurai character with similar, but probbaly not exacly the same, mechanics as mugen.

And one thing to note about his death is that it also adds to the difficulty curve in later missions which is GREAT. I mean if you look and think about the difficuly pacing of this game it's quite briliant and all ties in with the story very well. Suddenly Mugen is dead and Samurai become a major thing you need to actually plan to take down which i think is briliant.

[Sir Dex]

@RossenX

Thing is that you can still create very challenging missions even with a character as Mugen. And not every mission would have him as char, as some others. Nevertheless, I'd appreciate any DLCs with a new Samurai character, but I'd still miss the charm of Mugen.

[RossenX]

Originally posted by Marshal Dex:

@RossenX

Thing is that you can still create very challenging missions even with a character as Mugen. And not every mission would have him as char, as some others. Nevertheless, I'd appreciate any DLCs with a new Samurai character, but I'd still miss the charm of Mugen.

I mean sure they could've NOT have Mugen die and all.
But c'mon as much as you hated to see that and all, it was pretty much the most emotional part of the entire game and over-all, even though i dind't like his Death, it was a pretty great part of the story.

[Diego]

Actually, the fact that Mugen died there was one of the things I liked most about the game. The fact that you can't use Mugen *ever* again, means that you'll feel the lost of Mugen a little for real at least. If it was my choice, I'd say that they should never add Mugen to another mission, no create another Samurai character with the same skills he has ever. I don't want Mugen to be replaced... He was *unique*. I'd like to think he'll remain so...

[TheRailTracer]

Gameplay impact shouldn't be relevant if we are arguing about why he did or if he should have waited even more.
I actually agree with RossenX here, he should have done sooner, pretty much as soon as it happened, or later after "avenging" the deed.
I think it is alright story wise, he failed for the sake of his companions. Then died after knowing they were safe and entrusted them with the task. Sorta makes sense.

[semenant]

Also, there is one thing i actually not sure about, so take it with a grain of salt, but... wasn't samurai's life something like of a property of his lord? In a sense, proper seppuku requires his approval. So for Mugen to cleanse his honor he should've asked for permission first. Or am i wrong?

[facedancer]

That was a very strong and emotional moment.
Losing a friend and a valuable ally is sad, but I could respect his decision and the tradition behind it. What devastated me, however, was that there was no one to assist him. Throughout the game we see lesser people awarded with this honor, but the way Mugen had to do it was so underwhelming it's doubly tragic. I wonder if (if it were possible to obtain katana at that moment in the mission) Hayato would have agreed to play that role.

[Pippin123]

Originally posted by semenant:

Also, there is one thing i actually not sure about, so take it with a grain of salt, but... wasn't samurai's life something like of a property of his lord? In a sense, proper seppuku requires his approval. So for Mugen to cleanse his honor he should've asked for permission first. Or am i wrong?

No, samurai were noble, so they did not belong to anyone. There's plenty of exemple of seppuku where the samurai did not ask permission to anyone.

A famous one is the case of the instructor of the young Oda Nobunaga who killed himself as a remuntrance to his pupil, who was not taking his job seriously (that's commitment...)

What you're thinking about I think is the case of samurai who were guilty of some crimes and would ask to be able to perform seppuku instead of being executed.

It was not only a question of pride: execution meant that all properties were forfeit (and in all likelihood your family punished as well), while seppuku let your son inherit and your clan/family live on.

Peasants on the other hand WERE property, so much that a samurai killing a peasant using his kirisute gomen, ("licence to cut') had to answer to the daymio for "destruction of property". Even then , they knew that the rice didn't harvest itself... :)

PS: And the instructor scheme worked: Nobunaga was so shocked he pulled his stuff together and became the first unifier of Japan. he even had a shrine built in memory of his instructor.

[Randy]

From what i know, Seppuku in ancient Japan were highly prepared before they were executed. The one to commit it often had weeks or months to prepare for it, since killing yourself was only half the bill. What was important was that you died without showing fear or pain. If you died with a pained expression on your face your seppuku was not acknowledged and didn't restore your families honor. So to prepare for it, mentaly and physically they often had months to prepare.

Only a few "emergency" situations warranted a immediate seppuku, like beeing captured by the enemy where you likely wouldn't get another chance to commit it.

So yes, he really could have delayed it. But on the other hand, i do get why they did it. I liked Mugen. And his death saddened me. I'm sure that was the intention. Sure he could have lived, done the next missions and done eppuku in the end or offscreen afterwards. But it wouldn't have made the same impression on the player.

[Yohyzo]

Yes it was very sad, and of course nobody wanted him to die. But this is what makes this game great as well! Mugen' decision was totally accurate to the time frame and mentality of a honorable samurai. His "failure" allowed him this one "noble" decision. Im sure that they wrestled with this decision in the story making process. R.I.P Mugen

Oh and in response to Facedancer's comment on Hayato's assistance:
Im totally sure all of them would have wanted to assist in the traditional way, but in order to do that, one must be able to cut the head off in a single blow...otherwise its just messy xD

[TheAnnihilatore]

I know i kinda late to this discussion but i thnk mugen's choice was a neccessary driving point in the plot. It's the point where all the characters are really desperate and fired up. Plus it also added in a lot of plot and missions. Btw i feel like the last gift aiko gave to mugen was some sort of pregnancy test, becuase mugen said when one life ends another begins... i assume he has a child, but its just a guess.

[pipik.roman]

If there was any chance for Mugen, Noboro would make sure Mugen does what he has to and would not leave Mugen alone. So there is no other way for Mugen. I also assumed she is pregnant.