Shadow mode is such a poorly implemented mode

[Clown Fiesta]

I don't understand why the devs think it's a good idea for time to be flowing in shadow mode, instead of having the time be paused. It makes the shadow mode something extremely frustrating to use as you have to execute your plan very quickly to achieve the simultaneous action that this mode is designed for.

More often you are button smashing rather than seeing your carefully laid plan come to fruitation.

[vczh]

In my game the time is flowing in the shadow mode. Do I miss any update?

[Bertie]

Publicado originalmente por vczh:

In my game the time is flowing in the shadow mode. Do I miss any update?

No you didn't, it's meant to be flowing :)

Personally I don't have a problem with the game continuing during Shadow mode - it's there to allow you to set up simulataneous actions, not as a pause function.

[coru]

We had the game pause or slow drastically during Shadow Mode for some time during development. Both didnt work for several reasons (i wrote some of them in a thread about a pause function missing in the forums here...).
It was a conscious decission, not an oversight. But of course im sorry if you dont like it the way it is atm and hope you can still enjoy the rest of the game.

[Kaldin]

What Bertie says. The game would actually most likely be ridicously easy if there was an active pause - iIrc it was tried during development but removed...well, anyway. OP, if you'd just stop and think for a second, you'd know that every guard etc. keeps repeating what they do, since that's what it's designed like. If that wasn't the case, then Shadow Mode likely would be useless. But it isn't...not at all, actually.

[Barry White]

My only issue with shadow mode is that you can only tell them to do 1 thing. For example, i can only say "jump off the ledge" not "jump off the ledge and then run over to that bush". It would be nice if you could que commands.

[Clown Fiesta]

Publicado originalmente por 「死の火」 Yamino Takamaru:

What Bertie says. The game would actually most likely be ridicously easy if there was an active pause - iIrc it was tried during development but removed...well, anyway. OP, if you'd just stop and think for a second, you'd know that every guard etc. keeps repeating what they do, since that's what it's designed like. If that wasn't the case, then Shadow Mode likely would be useless. But it isn't...not at all, actually.

what part about simultaneous action do you not understand lol?

Try taking out 3 guards at the same time with yuki+her trap and the ninja's throwing star. It's very frustrating to get the action to all go at the same time which, unless memory fails me, is what the shadow mode is designed for - to execute several actions at the same time to prevent anyone from ringing the alarm etc.

Publicado originalmente por Barry White:

My only issue with shadow mode is that you can only tell them to do 1 thing. For example, i can only say "jump off the ledge" not "jump off the ledge and then run over to that bush". It would be nice if you could que commands.

Yea, in a way I wish there is a planner sort of function where you can say: Do X, then do Y right after, or wait Z amount of time then execute Y.

[Kaldin]

Publicado originalmente por Clown Fiesta:

Publicado originalmente por 「死の火」 Yamino Takamaru:

What Bertie says. The game would actually most likely be ridicously easy if there was an active pause - iIrc it was tried during development but removed...well, anyway. OP, if you'd just stop and think for a second, you'd know that every guard etc. keeps repeating what they do, since that's what it's designed like. If that wasn't the case, then Shadow Mode likely would be useless. But it isn't...not at all, actually.

what part about simultaneous action do you not understand lol?

Try taking out 3 guards at the same time with yuki+her trap and the ninja's throwing star. It's very frustrating to get the action to all go at the same time which, unless memory fails me, is what the shadow mode is designed for - to execute several actions at the same time to prevent anyone from ringing the alarm etc.

Publicado originalmente por Barry White:

My only issue with shadow mode is that you can only tell them to do 1 thing. For example, i can only say "jump off the ledge" not "jump off the ledge and then run over to that bush". It would be nice if you could que commands.

Yea, in a way I wish there is a planner sort of function where you can say: Do X, then do Y right after, or wait Z amount of time then execute Y.

1: And that's exactly what you can still use it for nevertheless. Where the ♥♥♥♥ is the need to mash a button? You only have to position as well.

2: Although, I do agree with that part of your post, through it should nevertheless be limited to 2 actions + 1 wait or something like that...especially since the ledge jumping AND doing something thereafter that Barry White mentions could be insanely useful...

[Clown Fiesta]

Publicado originalmente por 「死の火」 Yamino Takamaru:

1: And that's exactly what you can still use it for nevertheless. Where the ♥♥♥♥ is the need to mash a button? You only have to position as well.

Because in order for the game to understand you want to kill 3 guards simultaneously, it requires you, the human, to use inputs. Such as keyboard clicks and mouse clicks, to tell the game that, when the first guard in the patrol steps on the trap, you want Yuki to back stab the last guard while hayato ninja stars the guard in the middle, thus achieving simultaneous actions - aka actions that all happen at the same time.

You can have the perfect positions in the world, but if you can't give the inputs fast enough, guess what? One of the guards will live just 1 second too long to sound the alarm. And that is not what you want, unless of couse, your goal is to draw out all reinforcements on a map.

Understand now?

Publicado originalmente por 「死の火」 Yamino Takamaru:

2: Although, I do agree with that part of your post, through it should nevertheless be limited to 2 actions + 1 wait or something like that...especially since the ledge jumping AND doing something thereafter that Barry White mentions could be insanely useful...

Again, this is a tactics game, it should have certain tactical elements used by similar games. They can make the overall game harder as a result, but I suspect the higher cost is probably the cause.

Afterall this game isn't made by a big studio that has millions to burn, and isn't heavily marketed either.

[Clown Fiesta]

Publicado originalmente por coru:

We had the game pause or slow drastically during Shadow Mode for some time during development. Both didnt work for several reasons (i wrote some of them in a thread about a pause function missing in the forums here...).
It was a conscious decission, not an oversight. But of course im sorry if you dont like it the way it is atm and hope you can still enjoy the rest of the game.

I will read up on that, sounds like it will answer my question most likely, also, thanks for the reply, the game is great fun, I like it alot. Just that here and there I wish there improvements to certain elements of the game.

overall it's a success, you guys should be proud.

[Kaldin]

Publicado originalmente por Clown Fiesta:

Publicado originalmente por 「死の火」 Yamino Takamaru:

1: And that's exactly what you can still use it for nevertheless. Where the ♥♥♥♥ is the need to mash a button? You only have to position as well.

Because in order for the game to understand you want to kill 3 guards simultaneously, it requires you, the human, to use inputs. Such as keyboard clicks and mouse clicks, to tell the game that, when the first guard in the patrol steps on the trap, you want Yuki to back stab the last guard while hayato ninja stars the guard in the middle, thus achieving simultaneous actions - aka actions that all happen at the same time.

You can have the perfect positions in the world, but if you can't give the inputs fast enough, guess what? One of the guards will live just 1 second too long to sound the alarm. And that is not what you want, unless of couse, your goal is to draw out all reinforcements on a map.

Understand now?

Publicado originalmente por 「死の火」 Yamino Takamaru:

2: Although, I do agree with that part of your post, through it should nevertheless be limited to 2 actions + 1 wait or something like that...especially since the ledge jumping AND doing something thereafter that Barry White mentions could be insanely useful...

Again, this is a tactics game, it should have certain tactical elements used by similar games. They can make the overall game harder as a result, but I suspect the higher cost is probably the cause.

Afterall this game isn't made by a big studio that has millions to burn, and isn't heavily marketed either.

1: Problem is...no. You do only need to push the button for the actions when the Trap gets activated and they will do them simultaneously if the positions are right...which likely IS impossible in your example, yes, unless Yuki waits in a bush while there is another bush next to the guard she's supposed to stab....or unless Hayato was kept just as much out of throwing range as would be needed for Yuki to move up to the guard. Essentially would end up being similiar to a wait-function, through an actual one would be useful. An active pause

Note: I think this would work, but haven't tried if Hayato walks into range if he's out of range when being commanded to throw a Shuriken for Shadow Mode.

P.S.: Looking at what you wrote again, I don't know if your wording was just chosen poorly or if you really meant it how you it looks to me. Because "in order for the game to understand you want to kill 3 guards simultaneously" sounds a bit as if you wanted the timing to become automated, but might just be the wording resulting in my misinterpretation on this.

[Clown Fiesta]

Publicado originalmente por 「死の火」 Yamino Takamaru:

1: Problem is...no. You do only need to push the button for the actions when the Trap gets activated and they will do them simultaneously if the positions are right...which likely IS impossible in your example, yes, unless Yuki waits in a bush while there is another bush next to the guard she's supposed to stab....or unless Hayato was kept just as much out of throwing range as would be needed for Yuki to move up to the guard. Essentially would end up being similiar to a wait-function, through an actual one would be useful. An active pause

Note: I think this would work, but haven't tried if Hayato walks into range if he's out of range when being commanded to throw a Shuriken for Shadow Mode.

P.S.: Looking at what you wrote again, I don't know if your wording was just chosen poorly or if you really meant it how you it looks to me. Because "in order for the game to understand you want to kill 3 guards simultaneously" sounds a bit as if you wanted the timing to become automated, but might just be the wording resulting in my misinterpretation on this.

What I meant is that, if you could freeze the time:

- the 1 guard steps on the trap, is killed
- freeze the time
- you order hayato to throw his star on the second guard
- you order yuki to backstab the last guard in the patrol

the result?

all 3 guards dead with minimal time loss, this ensures no guard gets left alive long enough to sound the alarm.

It's just when you, the player, have to manually control both yuki and hayato, it becomes a button smash as you have to order both characters to do an action on the guards essentially at the same time, so once one of the kill animation is going you have to quickly switch to the other character and input your command.

This is literally impossible to do aside from getting really lucky and have one of the guards split off from the pack to investigate something else, so when guard #1 dies to trap, you can yuki melee guard #2 without guard #3 noticing. Then you ninja star the last guard and BOOM, all 3 dead with no alarm ringed.

[sethmage]

My attempts weren't that complicated, granted there maybe are some flaws with execution (if any character is a little off position), but to take 3 guards is quite simple.

Set up the trap, make Hayato use his shuriken in shadow mode and manually control Yuki. Yuki will start following and gets closer to the last guy in the 3 men patrol (you control her with mouse), the moment 1st dude steps on the trap, hit key on the keyboard to execute shadow mode and little girl kills the remaining guard. It takes less than 2 seconds.

Now if you want to jump on moving guy in the shadow mode that might get tricky, because if any of these acrobats are a little off, they will start walking along ledge of the roof before jumping. Once I wanted to execute 3 jumps, boy it wasn't pretty.

[Kaldin]

Publicado originalmente por Clown Fiesta:

It's just when you, the player, have to manually control both yuki and hayato, it becomes a button smash as you have to order both characters to do an action on the guards essentially at the same time, so once one of the kill animation is going you have to quickly switch to the other character and input your command.

And that's what you can ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ use Shadow Mode for...you're talking as through it didn't exist.
To time the commands you've queued you can also use different buttons for each character, iIrc...hadn't needed to do that yet, as the most I needed was Yuki and Aiko stab 1 Guard each by order through Shadow-Mode and having Hayato throw his Shuriken manually.

If you'll make another "argument" like that, I'm just gonna stop talking to this wall....after all you complain about Shadow Mode and then argument against it whilst completely ignoring it's existence.

[Carighan]

Publicado originalmente por Clown Fiesta:

Because in order for the game to understand you want to kill 3 guards simultaneously, it requires you, the human, to use inputs. Such as keyboard clicks and mouse clicks, to tell the game that, when the first guard in the patrol steps on the trap, you want Yuki to back stab the last guard while hayato ninja stars the guard in the middle, thus achieving simultaneous actions - aka actions that all happen at the same time.

Eh... yes of course you need to do *some* inputs. Otherwise it'd be called an automated demo.

I think what you mean is that you need to do manual inputs to get the timings right? You don't *need* to. I used shadow mode for 4+ kills a lot, and it's fine. Usually in the Old Dude + Yuki + Hayato combination, A walking person hits a trap, that moment Hayato and Yuki each stab an onlooker in the back, and Pervy Old Guy shoots the second one in the patrol.

Meaning I had Hayato + Yuki + Old Guy programmed to kill, and just waiting until someone hit the trap to fire the other actions.

Much easier than doing them manually.

[Clown Fiesta]

Publicado originalmente por 「死の火」 Yamino Takamaru:

Publicado originalmente por Clown Fiesta:

It's just when you, the player, have to manually control both yuki and hayato, it becomes a button smash as you have to order both characters to do an action on the guards essentially at the same time, so once one of the kill animation is going you have to quickly switch to the other character and input your command.

And that's what you can ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ use Shadow Mode for...you're talking as through it didn't exist.
To time the commands you've queued you can also use different buttons for each character, iIrc...hadn't needed to do that yet, as the most I needed was Yuki and Aiko stab 1 Guard each by order through Shadow-Mode and having Hayato throw his Shuriken manually.

If you'll make another "argument" like that, I'm just gonna stop talking to this wall....after all you complain about Shadow Mode and then argument against it whilst completely ignoring it's existence.

you can't tell hayato to throw a ninja star at a guard that's outside his range noob, therefore it's impossible to have him throw a star just as the first guard is killed. Since you also can't queue hayato for him to throw a star at a direction in X seconds, you have to manually do it yourself.