Kuma and Yuki needs a nerf

[Winking Wizard]

Kuma is waaaaay too OP if you cheese it, and Yuki on night maps can chain melody to really drag a guard away from his position, I'm sure both of these cheesy applications are not intended, especially Kuma's going across levels.

On the other hand, the other two characters are underpowered. Like Hayato's shuriken is supposed to work like a sniping tool not a hand grenade (what's up with the noise level? Perhaps the soon-to-be-dead guy screams like a pig?), and Aiko's disguise pretty much isn't even worth of effort of getting it in non-speedrun playthroughs.

Of course, "just don't cheese it!", but a strategy game like shadow tatics pushes me to use every possible means to complete a level, it takes away a bit of the intensity if I have to remind myself "hey there's a really easy way to do this, but let's not do that otherwise it'd be too easy".

What do you think?

[Bertie]

I don't think I've ever actually chained melody in that way, so interesting to know! Perhaps after using it a couple of times on the same guard it could set off the alarm? Similarly I don't use Kuma that much, however I think he should be more like the mouse in Commandos 2 - you can send him somewhere to make a noise then he comes back. The guards still go investigate, but they don't hang around watching him for ages.

I don't really understand your thoughts about Hayato - what do you mean like a hand grenade?

I agree that the disguise isn't that useful on speedruns, however for non-speedruns I think it's overpowered - she shouldn't be able to distract a guard indefinitely, and if she's in view of a guard for too long they should start to get suspicious.

Personally I generally dislike Takuma as I don't find him that useful:

- I've used his grenade once only thus far at the end of the Saganuma village mission to kill the returning guards, but that was out of sheer laziness. I did use it on Kaga-sama's camp, but that was just to get the badge.
- His sniper rifle can be useful, but since matchlocks have a good range (as in you can crouch in an enemies view and still be in range) I don't use it that much, and if it wasn't available I don't think I'd miss it. Over half the missions he's in have bagdes saying not to kill anyone with it!
- Kuma can be useful, but as I've said above I didn't use him that much and I think you could probably give him to Yuki. If I remember rightly I think she's actually in all the missions with Takuma anyway

[coru]

It is intended that you can lure guards for long distances with these characters.
Its not the "we want you to play this way!" solution, but it is one that we deliberately left in the game because it can create fun environments where people come up with creative solutions.
I dont think that you can cheese your way through the whole game with this, since where it works is limited and many setups consist of guards that cant be distracted that way.

[The War of 1812]

I think allowing things like this create fun little situations, even if they arent realistic (id rather sacrifice realism before sacrificing fun). Like when I kept throwing bodies off a sniper tower onto guards below, which would lure groups up into Mugan's sword wind at the top of the tower. Wiped out an army that way.

[Winking Wizard]

Originally posted by The War of 1812:

I think allowing things like this create fun little situations, even if they arent realistic (id rather sacrifice realism before sacrificing fun). Like when I kept throwing bodies off a sniper tower onto guards below, which would lure groups up into Mugan's sword wind at the top of the tower. Wiped out an army that way.

Lol I thought about sword wind cutting across levels but that's jaw dropping.

[vczh]

Yuki can only distract a target twice. On the second time the target will run to you, and if you cannot hide immediately you will be killed.

[Andyana]

I've often used Kuma multiple times to lure guards far away, but as he only has a limited repositioning radius it's still tricky to pull off, and satsifying to do

[RossenX]

Kuma is way over powered, i suggest making the enemy NOT be able to be distracted twice in a row untill he goes back to his original post after the first distraction. I often used Kuma and Yuki to bassicly break the map and make an army of guards walk somewhere since if you just keep taping kuma on and off you bassicly distract them indefinetly.

[Artan]

If you find it OP and they devs don't, then limit yourself by not using it.
Then you are happy and the devs are happy and everyone wins.

:)

[Demon of Razgriz]

You have to remember, Kuma and Yuki can only be used to distract certain guards. There are plenty of times where the guards are straw hats or samurai, thus, cannot be distracted that way. So, when you can use it, it can be great, but it is limited.

[RossenX]

Originally posted by -SG1-Shadowscall:

You have to remember, Kuma and Yuki can only be used to distract certain guards. There are plenty of times where the guards are straw hats or samurai, thus, cannot be distracted that way. So, when you can use it, it can be great, but it is limited.

They do look at kuma though and if you spam kuma well enough, you can make a samurai or strawhat just face the wall for a good few minutes while you calmly walk up to them and stab them.

[murdocj]

It's not like using Kuma to drag the basic guards is a free pass. You have to get Takuma close enough to position Kuma, move Takuma back a bit, switch Kuma on, move Kuma, move Takuma away, switch Kuma on before guard loses interest and moves off, repeat, and then when you just get the guard in position, he notices the body that you didn't bother to hide and freaks out.

[Fr3nky]

i almost never used Kuma ...

[JukePlz]

Hayato's shuriken is not weak. It's the only long distance weapon in the game with virtually unlimited ammo, and other than mugen he's the only character that can take two enemies at once without spending limited resources, that's why it has a huge noise radius to compensate.

For the next game I would like to see some small buffs to the skills of whoever takes Aiko's role as the spy. I think her whole kit can be a little annoying to use compared to other characters because of how situationally strong her disguise can be. Things like removing the disguise on crouch or ladder climbing are annoying, and should probably only happen if an enemy has full-vision of her in that state. I feel the hairpin and blinding powder are also kind of weird, hairpin should probably be completely silent, or at least have a shorter noise range than knife/katana melee attacks to make her more useful clearing dual guards from behind. The blinding powder should instantaneously shorten enemy vision instead of gradually, and maybe last a bit longer before it starts expanding again.

For her disguises, I feel there is more deepth to play with... right now you can get different disguises on a level but they all work the same way, and you don't even get the flair of changing to other disguises if you have them. Making them less conspicuous to enemies in certain areas, or to samurai would make for more strategic choice. I wouldn't mid if she takes some nerfs in other forms to compensate, like civilians being able to reveal her disguise when she's doing something suspicious.