Really enjoying the game, but Fighter seems a bit weak? *Gear/Ability Spoilers?*

[Will]

I played for about 5 hours last night in co-op with two friends who were playing Meg/Sniper and Triss/Sentinel, and I just felt a bit less useful compared to other two.

I'm happy to accept if I'm the playing the class wrong or badly, and I don't want this to come out as a rant because it isn't! But based on my experience yesterday it just doesn't seem to have much going for it in comparison to the other classes in a multiplayer scenario (or this specific class setup).

The final hit of the melee combo is quite slow with the fire hammer to the point that some enemies will recover and dodge roll out of the way in the time it takes for the final hit to connect. The vampire hammer is quicker but the trade-off of less health and lifesteal is hard to judge if worth it at the moment because you still need to complete the full combo for the lifesteal.

I find the counter difficult to actually use effectively, and I've occasionally found myself forcing myself to use it when it's not necessary and often gain nothing. It's useful in the bullet-hell-style situations where you have plenty of time to see loads of projectiles coming towards you, but that's using it as a dodge not as a counter. In a crowded combat scenario with melee enemies (particularly in co-op with so much going on), it seems hard to use with little payoff.

I also seem to get knocked out of the spin move fairly often? This was quite noticeable with the item that makes it move very quickly and last a while with little damage? I guess it's for trying to keep enemies up in the air for crits, but it didn't seem to work out very well during play. It's just frustrating to get knocked out of your only real attack ability because the counter doesn't feel like a very offensive attack.

In a specific later fight, where a boss moved quite quickly, I genuinely could not actually catch up with it to hit it. It's movement speed was either the same or faster than me, so I ended up just running around the arena trying to catch up with it for most of the fight while the others hit from range or dashed up to it.

To add some positives though, the divebomb is excellent for dodging and the wide radius to knock so many enemies up the air is great and very useful and satisfying. Being able to hop over little environment walls and stuff with the jump is fun, and playing guitar in the camp is pretty fun too :P

I apologise if this sounds like moaning, I really don't mean it to, and I would be happy to hear advice/tips if I'm playing her incorrectly. But with the sniper's range and very high damage, and the sentinel's excellent mobility, great defence and (what feels like) comparable damage to the fighter, the fighter feels a bit weak in comparison (in this specific class setup). I should also say I don't have all of the equipment yet and this would change the abilities up, but I think I'm only missing 4/5 bits so have about two thirds of it?

I'm really enjoying the game and intend to spend a lot of time with it and level all the classes, so please don't take this as negative!

Thanks for the great game! I have no regrets and would love to see it supported going forward with more levels/classes etc if time/money permits you to do so :)

[LL Cheese Z]

Originally posted by Kintoun:

Sniper on the other hand with the AWP is shoot into animation cancel for a billion damage, shoot into animation cancel for a billion damage over and over. Don't even bother using her abilities for anything other than animation cancelling her shoot since breaking that loop is a massive DPS loss.

*jolly voice* I know what I'm testing tonight.

[View The Phenom]

Originally posted by FroBodine:

Man, the math involved in enjoying this game seems over the top. I just want to beat the crap out of stuff. I do math at work. I don't want to have to count milliseconds and frames to enjoy a video game. Perhaps this isn't the game for me.

That's what difficulty levels are for.

[Will]

Originally posted by Whom'st'd've Puppers:

Seriously. Alex is hard to master but it's counter that defines her.

Land mines? COunter 'em. Challenge areas with bullets everywhere? Counter 'em. Hordes of enemies? Counter 'em.

Beyond that she also has the jump for mobility. The spins for crowds, and her combo is massive damage, all of which can be insta counters if need be. That said it's a lot of practice.

I'm not denying the counter is useful, I just don't find it to be a very offensive option. It feels way more like an emergency evasive tool, personally. If when you countered you then automatically started your main combo, or got a free hard/final hit from your combo, or knocked them into the air or something like that, it would open up way more offensive options and feel much more like an attack instead of a dodge.

[View The Phenom]

You get unlocks to counter that improve its use as an offensive tool.

[Sleepy Frogge]

Counter is best for being ganged up on; You can cancel the end of counter, while you're still invincible, into another counter. Repeatedly. In this way it's good for offense. But it's, for me, a tool to pull of mid combo to deny damage.

[Briggsy]

Same issue with fighter. Counter window is very small and difficult to use with how chaotic the game can get. Cool downs in this game are just way too punishing as well. It's a great game with everything tuned to be way too difficult. I don't actually feel stronger on level up - just feel like I'm keeping pace with the enemies.

[JackBaldy]

Originally posted by Kintoun:

Sniper on the other hand with the AWP is shoot into animation cancel for a billion damage, shoot into animation cancel for a billion damage over and over. Don't even bother using her abilities for anything other than animation cancelling her shoot since breaking that loop is a massive DPS loss.

Is there a video demonstrating this technique? I know you can animation cancel a shot, but you make it seem as if you can keep doing it repeatedly without stopping. How does one do this exactly?

Is any specific equipment required? Skills in the skill tree?

[Charity Diary]

Originally posted by Dr. Cheesesteak:

Originally posted by Kintoun:

Sniper on the other hand with the AWP is shoot into animation cancel for a billion damage, shoot into animation cancel for a billion damage over and over. Don't even bother using her abilities for anything other than animation cancelling her shoot since breaking that loop is a massive DPS loss.

*jolly voice* I know what I'm testing tonight.

Actually, there's a better combo than that. If you use the SAM Coating, you can just shoot an enemy normally to launch them up into the air, hold your Power Shot to slow down time and shoot them with your SAM Shot for MASSIVE critical damage, then animation cancel with your grapnel. The cooldown on the SAM Shot is only a few seconds. It's how I get all of my kills, kills almost every enemy in one go.

It's also a great technique to use with other players, especially the Fighter and Tank, as they constantly launch enemies into the air.

But using the Fighter and Tank at the same time is probably not a good idea. The Fighter relies on landing the 4th hit of her combo, and the Tank is always knocking the enemies around.