The TRUE Ultimate Despair [SPOILERS]

[JavaTheMocha]

The TRUE ultimate despair is when you realize that Mikan's not wearing any arm/leg bandages in the video during the Ibuki/Hiyoko case.
- It's also when you realize that Mikan had no accomplice to turn off the camera or to blow out the candle while she was climbing the ladder; thus there's no way for the picture to have gone black.
- It's when you realize that she also destroyed the other monitor before filming the video; so she would have no point of reference to the video's framing, and thus wouldn't freak out about the camera angle during the trial and implicate herself.
- It's when you realize that she wouldn't have had the time to stash the ladder or clean up the conference room in the first place because she stayed at the ♥♥♥♥♥ typhoon to perform the autopsies.

The TRUE ultimate despair is when you have to figure out that a student uses trained hamsters to activate the kill switch on another student who had recently become a robot.
- You then also convict him long before you establish any form of motive.

The TRUE ultimate despair is when you realize that simply knowing the existenece of the "Ultimate Imposter" is a contradiction in itself.

The TRUE ultimate despair is when an important trial gets derailed because Akane asks Hajime to pay her to touch her boobs.
-Then she gets offended and asks for the money back...which would imply that she was the one paying. It's like the writers didn't even realize the sort of joke they were trying to make.

The TRUE ultimate despair is when you have to watch insufferable characters debate in circles about who actually murdered Nagito..
- When you already know that "murder" cannot be established without intent, and the only person who intended for Nagito to die, was Nagito. It would be ruled an "accidental suicide" caused by the victims own reckless endangerment of lighting the room on fire and dangling a spear over himself.
- But then they kill Chiaki off anyway.
- But then you learn that she was a computer program the whole time so it's not like it even mattered.

The TRUE ultimate despair is when you learn that, somehow, Junko's arm was transplanted and one guy even had sex with her dead body after she was COMPLETELY PULVERIZED in the first game. Also it's when she finally shows up...and starts talking about her boobs. Some entrance.

The TRUE ultimate despair is when you realize that every trial gets less intuitive, less intelligent, less organic, and more contrived.
- It's when you watch as the outcomes grow to be ridiculously forced and ultimately unrewarding.
- It's when you go into a trial and you know that you're likely not even going to care about the outcome whatsoever. Unlike the first game where you were racking your brain and having fun coming up with possible, fantastic, conclusions.

But the TRUE ULTIMATE DESPAIR, is when you love the first game so much that you decide to buy the 2nd one.

[Whitnee]

It has been a year, but I would like to argue some points for both sides that hasn't been argued at all.

“The TRUE ultimate despair is when you realize that Mikan's not wearing any arm/leg bandages in the video during the Ibuki/Hiyoko case.””

This was something I noticed right away since Mikan’s bandages did feel important to her character, but I think really all it is is a simple aesthetic change. For example, Hiyoko is dressed in a school uniform rather than her iconic kimono. Maybe the bandages violated school dress code or maybe Mikan decided not to wear them anymore. The purpose of it was probably to show that these characters were in a different place in a different time.
Okay, with case three:

“ -The point is that she's wearing the bandages again the next time you see her. She couldn't have put the bandages back on though. They made it a point that she was under massive time constraints and barely had enough time to go to and from the venue to establish her alibi and tamper with the scene some more.
- “Also about hiding the ladder. Once again, she was under a time constraint of 10 minutes. I mean there is a small chance that she could have brought the ladder with her when she left to tamper with the crime scene, but the ladder seems a bit unwieldly. I could maybe believe that she hid the ladder OR re-wrapped her bandages...but both is asking quite a bit of the player.” *unwieldy

Ahh, this is a really simple solution actually! If you will recall, there was a on-call room right next to the conference room. This room was really messy and big boxes were scattered everywhere. To take care of the step ladder, tote bag, robe, and candle, all Mikan would have had to do is open up one of the boxes and stash them in there. Even if someone was to come across the robe or ladder, it wouldn’t look too out of place anyway. Honestly, that room is probably where Mikan got those items anyway. The bandages are an even easier fix. Recall that Mikan was wearing a very large robe, if she had just wrapped here bandages below her wrist, there is no way Hajime could have seen them and it wouldn’t take her more than thirty seconds to rewrap her hand with it. None of this would take more than five to ten minutes. Next all she had to do was meet up with Fuyuhiko, break the camera in the typhoon, break the camera, glue the door, and meet up with everyone. If this was all planned and she had enough adrenaline, I’m sure this could work.

“- It's also when you realize that Mikan had no accomplice to turn off the camera or to blow out the candle while she was climbing the ladder; thus there's no way for the picture to have gone black.”

Like Pikaman said, Mikan could have timed the candle out to help with this, but there is something else she did to perform the light’s out trick. If you will recall, Hajime said that the person took a considerably long time walking to the ladder and then climbing up to the noose. If she had it timed out, her slow march could have been a sort of extra insurance. In case the candle took too long of a time, her steady yet slow paced may have given her some extra precious seconds. This too seems believable.
I’m not going to touch up on the camera angle because I think Pikaman did a good job explaining it. Remember, the whole point is that no one would have considered the angle being odd except the one who filmed it. No one else should have brought it up to begin with. I agree that it was poorly executed, but it is believable.

Case four:

Really quick, with Nekomaru/Mechamaru, while it is strange, keep in mind that it is a video game and the kids are in a VR. I think Spike Chunsoft added it in to make the game more fun and then killed him off just as quick because it was a bit weird.

“- Casting your votes before establishing a motive is a actually a pretty huge problem. You never do that in the first game. You learn that Sayaka was trying to lure someone into her room. You learn that the murderer discovers Chihiro's secret. You learn that someone was manipulating Hifumi. You learn that Sakura comitted suicide. All of the necessary information is revealed before the votes are cast. Not so in this game. When you're doling out judgement without having proper evidence or character motivation, you tend not to care about the outcome very much. That's why the first game is so compelling and enjoyable.”

“- By that same logic, if a student poisoned some food and another student ate it, this would be considered a suicide. Because even if the person didn't know it was poisoned, they were the last person in contact with the object. You're absolutely right. This one is just really stupid. And I realize that Monokuma doesn't care. But they do make it a point in the ending that he only had limited power and had to abide by the rules...which seem to get bent pretty whimsically.”

Okay I’m sorry but there are a lot of contradictions in this post that I want to address first. If we are talking motive, that is never addressed in the second and third case of the first game. Mondo gave literally no ♥♥♥♥♥ that Chihiro was a boy, he got enraged that he was so weak BECAUSE he saw Chihiro facing having a secret equally as destructive revealed yet instead of being a complete mess it encouraged Chihiro to get stronger. While this motive was amazing and more complex than any of the motives seen in the second game, this was never addressed until after the votes were cased. Also, in the third case, Celeste’s motive is literally just “IWantToGetOutOfThisSchoolAndWillKillForIt.” I mean sure she has the whole Castle/money thing going, but her MOTIVE was that simple (and was revealed after the votes were casted as well). I think it’s safe to assume that Gundham committed the crime for the same reason as Celeste. I mean he was LITERALLY ABOUT TO STARVE TO DEATH, that’s a pretty okay and believable motive. In fact, I think it was so clear it didn’t need mentioning. Also, really quicky touching up on your second point. If you were on a date with someone and they ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ poisoned your food, would you not be pissed if it was written off as a suicide and left at that? That would be like saying rigging someone’s car to explode when they start it up would be suicide not homicide. Overall, The first game had plenty of times where certain elements were left out until the voting. It feels like you're giving this game too hard of a time for other reasons.

“- I guess I just have to believe that Junko is actually made of titanium. What the hell why not. This game's just dumb enough to do something like that.”

Yeah this one was weak and I thought the same thing too. Still, it made for a really creepy and kinda cool scene so ehh. Almost every game has some weak point that you could prod and poke for hours and it still not make sense. In the same execution of the first game, it makes it look like the escape button flew off of her bloody body since it’s above a blood splatter. Of course this makes no sense since it should have been crushed with Junko or covered in blood had it been placed there in advance. I’m fine with letting this one slide.

"- The weird part is that his student profile is basically blank. And if he made a mistake to end up discovered, it wouldn't be very befitting of "ultimate" status. It just seemed like a really forced way for the developers drive the story along."

I think you’re underestimating the ability of the school and overestimating the ability of Twogami. Maybe the police captured Twogami and after harsh interrogation found out his identity and since the school is so powerful they used their influence to take him in. I mean, identity theft isn’t a crazy serious crime but enough of it is enough to be taken in by the police (This school also accepted a bike gang leader and mafia leader, they definitely have some BIG influence). Or maybe an ultimate alumi with ultimate investigative or psychological abilities caught onto his secret and then recommended him. The possibilities there are pretty big.

Also, as someone who absolutely loves the Ace Attorney series and played this series because of it, saying that Ace Attorney is flawless is a total fallacy. There are numerous times where the characters jumped to unforeseen conclusions, don’t consider/ever bring up key points that could solve a trial from the start, and include cases where certain motivations don’t completely all add up making the case feel a little bit lacking. Still, I love the series and am going to buy AA7 or whatever localized spin off game is released next. If I let little logistical flaws ruin the game for me, there would not be one game left for me to play! In my opinion, this game has some great characters, interesting twists, neat new tactics for the trials, and is overall a good addition to the second game. Also, this game fixed a lot of logistical bugs left over from the first game. Maybe the game’s formula got a bit dull the second time around and that is what turns you away from this game or maybe there is something else about it that you aren’t sharing for whatever reason. Still, I can understand if you have other problems with this game and I'd be happy to hear them. Personally hating this game is fine, but calling it TRUE ultimate despair for some reasons that don’t even hold up all that well is a bit faulty is a bit of an overstatement.

[strigvir]

Publicado originalmente por JavaTheMocha:

The TRUE ultimate despair is when you learn that, somehow, Junko's arm was transplanted and one guy even had sex with her dead body after she was COMPLETELY PULVERIZED in the first game. Also it's when she finally shows up...and starts talking about her boobs. Some entrance.

Executions, in the first game at least, are just fancy graphics. By your logic Mondo shouldn't have been in the morgue because he literally was turned into butter.

[JavaTheMocha]

^ Absolutely. Although it would had bothered me more if Mondo ended up in the 2nd game.

That's kind of like what you experience with Junko. She's someone who is clearly dead (albeit in a fanciful way) and there's certainly no coming back from it. The butter thing is meant to be comical...but I mean Junko goes splat.

I would've been disappointed if Mondo showed up in #2. And I was with Junko...especially as a large plot piece in one of the most contrived videeogame conclusions that I've personally experienced.

[Pikaman20008]

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, I completely forgot this was a thing. We're still arguing about this!? It's a videogame, so what if some details don't make sense? It's not like it's anything gamebreaking!

[Battler Ushiromiya]

Publicado originalmente por JavaTheMocha:

^ Absolutely. Although it would had bothered me more if Mondo ended up in the 2nd game.

That's kind of like what you experience with Junko. She's someone who is clearly dead (albeit in a fanciful way) and there's certainly no coming back from it. The butter thing is meant to be comical...but I mean Junko goes splat.

I would've been disappointed if Mondo showed up in #2. And I was with Junko...especially as a large plot piece in one of the most contrived videeogame conclusions that I've personally experienced.

Why would Mondo show up in the second game? That doesn't make sense.

Also, with Junko, just look at how much ♥♥♥♥ she took before she finally died. I wouldn't be surprised if, after surviving that much, her body would remain intact

[Whitnee]

Plus, Junko never exactly "Showed up." It was all alter Junko. Still, I think we should just all agree that Junko's physical body in the real world SHOULD NOT be intact making it impossible for the remnants of despair to tamper with. We can all agree that makes sense. Still, that is such a minor MINOR flaw that I don't think it should distract from the entire game. Disagreeing with that makes 100% sense, so if you still have a problem with the game why not explain why the other like 10+ issues you originally had still upset the game for you.