Chapter 1 Murder Issues (Spoilers)

[Thanada]

I loved the first game and hoped right into the second and have heard nothing but good things about it. The first game had a very logical inconsistencies with the murders but nothing like this first murder in the second game.

Does it get better? Did I misunderstand something? Does one of my issues get resolved later?

My issues are lengthy and as follows, please help me understand what I am missing, because I am irritated that there are so many easily found issues with only the first murder.

Premise: Nagito Claims He did not Know that Togami had the Night Vision Goggles.

Issues with Togami:
1. Night Vision Goggles, we see them strapped to his head, but when we find his body they have fallen off and are in front of him How?
a. It fell off When he tackled Nagito?
i. Possibly, but again it was strapped, and strapped very tightly from the comic visual so not likely.
ii. He was reaching for the knife when stabbed and his head fell and they came off. Same reason for unlikeliness.

2. Why did Togami not move when he was stabbed? It appears he just stood there and took all 10+ stabbings. Even if the first stab was through his throat, it would not kill him instantly he would reflexively roll over.
a. Additionally why did he not make a sound when he was stabbed, an iron skewer, stabbing 10+ times, he would be in pain, but could still scream or say something.

3. It is implied that Togami was either trying to A. save Nagito from the killer under the floor or B. trying to stop Nagito from getting the knife as he saw him using the chord to pull himself to the table. Both of these explanations do not make sense.
A. Togami was in the front left of the room as seen by the diagram showing peoples positionings, The killer was under the floorboards on the top right.
i. Night vision goggles cannot see through solid objects.
ii. Even if could see some heat signatures from in between the floorboards he Couldn’t see the floorboards from his angle
iii. There was a rug covering the floor from him to the foot of the table where he died, the angle he was standing at would have obscured any vision of the floorboards the killer was hiding under.
1. And as Night vision goggles cannot see through solid objects, the cannot see through a Rug.
iv. Further Teruteru was waiting for the knife to Move before he stabbed, If Togami was worried about the Teruteru, why did he move the knife triggering the stabbing that seems secondary.
B. If Togami was trying to Stop Nagito from getting the knife, why did he think he was getting a knife. Nagito was just holding onto a chord and could easily be seen as “getting his bearings in a dark room”
i. It wouldn’t have been until he went under the table that Togami should have gotten suspicious at which point charging would have been pointless.
ii. If he was trying to stop Nagito, Why didn’t he bring any other weapon from the case in which the Goggles were located?

Issues with Nagito:
1. Why did he need to pull at the lamp chord to get to the table There were 2 other easier and more reliable options?
a. He had set the 2 different digital AC timers to go off at 11:30. Digital AC timers always have a clock on them otherwise they couldn’t function at certain times Nagito must’ve known what time it was and could have just stood at the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ table and gotten the knife instantly.
i. Even if we assume that this AC timer did not show the exact time, Nagito had to have known the time somehow. He couldn’t just stand next to the lamp chord all night, he needed a way to estimate time. Whether a watch, or another clock. He could have been at the table at the time of the blackout.
b. The rug was set up so that it reached the foot of the table, he could have followed the end of the rug with his feet and reached the table much faster.

2. What was his plan anyway after acquiring the knife? It would be glowing once removed from the table. Everyone would see a glowing green stick in the room.
a. Even if he covered the glowing parts, somehow, without anyone noticing, he just stabs Togami and has no escape route or way to move the body.
i. I suppose that could be fine as he stated he was fine with dying
ii. But if he was fine with just dying after killing, then Why bother with the blackout. Just hide the murder weapon under the table, discreetly grab it, walk up to Togami and stab him in broad daylight.
1. Could be said he wanted a trial to happen, but he also stated he was fine with being a sacrifice. The logic here is not consistent with the actions.

3. It is implied that Nagito set up the Teruteru so that Teruteru would kill from underneath the floorboards. Nagito claims that he did not know Togami had the night vision goggles so who would Teruteru have been killing? Did Nagito plan to have himself killed and if the Teruteru did not go through with it, Nagito would kill Togami?

Issues with Togami: (chef)

1. The Timing issue is the same as with Nagito. Teruteru knew that 11:30 the lights would be out. Why couldn’t Teruteru have been in the Storage room at 11:30 instead of being in the kitchen removing the whole need for a light source.
a. If he was afraid of someone coming into the kitchen a minute before the lights went out, that same scenario would have stopped him from leaving the kitchen as he could not turn on the light and remove the skewer without the surprise guest seeing.

2. Why did Teruteru need to hide the murder weapon in the meat? Why not just preplace it in the in the hatch leading to under the house. He brought the light anyway, he could’ve just placed the skewer at the entrance right underneath the hatch.

3. The timing of the actions do not make sense. Lights go Out.
a. Togami order of operations.
i. immediately puts on goggles, estimated 10 seconds, maybe 20
ii. rushes over and knocks away Nagito and gets under table. Estimated another 10 second maybe 15
iii. Total Time 20 seconds, even doubled to 40 seconds, there is no possibly way this makes sense.
iv. Teruteru is already in position waiting for the knife to move so he can know to use his skewer.
b. Teruteru Order of events as soon as lights go out
i. turns on the portable stove. Then he pulls out the skewer out of the meat and leaves the room. 10 seconds (Very generous only takes 10 seconds)
ii. Teruteru then closes the fire doors (usually very heavy to move and has to do them 1 at a time) if he did this VERY FAST maybe this took 10 seconds. But that is being insanely generous.
iii. Teruteru Walks over the storage room, 5 seconds.
iv. Teruteru takes a sheet from the storage room and wraps himself in it, 5 seconds (assuming he does it flawlessly)
v. Teruteru enters the CRAWLSPACE beneath the house 5 seconds.
vi. Teruteru crawls to the position under the table 5-20 seconds depending on distance.
vii. Total Time at best 40 seconds, at worst well over a minute. This makes no sense that he was there before Togami moved the knife.
c. It is possible to say that we did not know how long the lights were actually out, but if the total even took any longer than 30-40 seconds then Nagito would have had the knife already.

If you actually read all that I am sorry and thank you.
Does it Get better? Did I make a mistake? I am really disappointed after the first game currently.
Edited for some readability.

[Silvy]

Been a while so a good amount of this is from memory

Issue with Togami.

Night Goggles.

The comics are mostly for fun and not really a fully accurate representation of the exact way the events went down other then the general idea of how the cast pieced it together. The goggles likely weren't on as tight and for mystery sake it's better for em to be on the floor so someone can debate in the trial later.

The Skewers tend to be around a foot long from what I recall, I remember the in game one being pretty big so getting stabbed by something like that repeatadly that deep likely doesn't give you too much time to react. One stab sure but multiple I doubt. The human body really can't take that much.

Been a while but I think Togami saw Teruteru after he was already under the table with Nagito and that's where he pushed Nagito out of the way. His man goal was just to stop Nagito who was being suspicious. Plus the gaps in the floorboards were pretty big. Gundham was able to see his earing no problem so someone with night vision goggles would have an easier time looking through the gaps.

Togami was pretty pariniod during the party due to the letter he got. So a blackout and Nagito acting supicious was more then enough to get him to react. Worse case if nothing happened he would just explain himself and everyone would be fine with it. Nagito went under the table so he went under the table. The kit where he got the goggles was a security kit thing and didn't have any weapons. He likely didn't want to risk bringing any sort of danger to the scene anyways.

A lot of the Nagito thing is understanding his character and how his luck actually works. No spoilers here but it makes sense as the game goes on but I can say. Yes, Nagito is the kind of person to just stand there until the black out. Nagito's plan as legit. "I'm going to grab the knife and stab someone." That's it, he didn't care about living or getting away with it. He likely would have just left the body under the table and gotten rid of the knife somehow. He simply wanted the killing game to begin so the others can overcome it for the sake of Hope. Also Nagito straight out told Teruteru his plan. How he was going to wait for the black out and just stab someone with knife with glowing Paint. Maybe he didn't tell him about the black out but Teruteru figured it out when he went to look at the secret passage in the storage room. I think the original plan was to kill anyone, the closest person he could reach. Probably either Hajime or Hiyoko. When Teruteru discovered him he probably counted on his luck to have Teruteru kill him. Nagito's plan became. "I'm going to go there, grab the knife, hopefully Teruteru kills me!"

If Nagito failed? He would just think "Oh well, I'll try again some other day."

And timewise you just gotta accept the fact that it's a game. The events likely lasted longer then what we saw but they aren't going to have you sit around in the dark for like ten minutes. The lights only came back on due to Monokuma so the bear must have realized someone was murdered and then just turned em back on since he's an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Thanada]

Some of the makes sense some of it doesn't.

The Kit with the Night vision Goggles did have weapons in it, a taser and 1 other item. They were shown very visibly and even mentioned.

Nagito's plan still doesn't make sense. Even if he got the knife during the blackout, how could he find a target to stab, he doesn't have night vision. Was he planning to just stumble around in the dark with a knife and randomly hope to hit someone? It was said he was aiming to kill Togami, but how was he going to find him?

Nagito had no way of attracting Togami to the table, as he stated himself that he did not know Togami had night vision goggles.

The event's could not have lasted much longer time wise. Lights cut out immediately paranoid Togami would put on the night vision goggles. Why would Nagito wait before going the the knife so he would immediately start heading towards its. We are given a map of the room, neither of those actions would take more than 30-40 seconds.

Post the stabbing, and everyone getting back into position they could have been in the dark for 10 minutes, 30 minutes, or even an hour that is fine and irrelevant. The only issue I have with is the 30 seconds --> 1/2 minutes immediately after it went dark.

Still does not address the issue of why Nagito was not just standing at the table when the power went out. Still does not address the issue of why Teruteru was not in the storage room when the power went out.

We can agree to disagree on the skewers bit though, multiple strikes take time. He stabbed through Togami's entire body with every strike, that is why Blood splattered all over. The skewers on each strike would get stuck and be difficult to pull out and require strength to go that far through. Each strike would have to take multiple seconds to go into his body and then out of his body. Plenty of time to roll away.

[Hurkyl]

I've never noticed anything implying Nagito was specifically targeting Togami.

While Nagito did not care so much if he was found out, he did care very much that the murder would be an interesting one. Loitering in the corner rather than joining the party would attract attention -- he would be the obvious suspect once it was clear the murder weapon was stashed there. Suddenly walking to the corner just before the lights go out would be even more obvious.

Lurking in the storage room would run the risk of someone noticing Teruteru was missing. And this is a real worry -- recall that Togami and Hinata already came to visit the kitchen. And even if he did get away with waiting in the storage room, he still has to make sure he can *get back* before people can turn the lights back on. Being discovered after would be the far greater danger, since people would be moving through the hallway after the lights come back on.

That said, I do feel like the writer of the mystery has poor spatial awareness: I'm pretty sure I could navigate that cabin without a light, even having never been physically present in it. but, it's not hard to assume Teruteru is just as challenged as the writer is.

The skewer strikes went from the stomach up to the throat, iirc. The throat would probably even have been struck first, given Teruteru was aiming for the area beneath the knife.

[Thanada]

We are really going to disagree here. Probably because I played this section much more recently than you.

Nagito specifically says during the trial he was aiming for Togami as he was the leader of the group.

Worrying that a Party was coming to the Kitchen is not a worry, He could say he was in the storage room looking for something.

Worrying that a party would come to the kitchen would also not allow him to turn on the portable stove and commit the murder. So having someone come into the kitchen is wholly irrelevant.

Nagito was already standing in the corner of the room when the lights went off as seen in the picture and the map drawn. In fact it appears he is only a few feet from the murder weapon. He is also the closest to the murder weapon.

Even if struck through the throat first, still plenty of time to move.

I have played more of the game at this point, and I really do not have an issue with any of other murders. Sure some logical leaps, and characters acting stupid at times, but nothing as inconsistent as this one.

I'm just going to throw it up to the writer's poor spatial awareness and not really thinking through everything for this murder. Which is fine, 1 bad murder across 2 games is still pretty good.