Anyone think Hiyoko had despair disease?

[flarefan]

This is something I really started to wonder about after finishing the game. The scene where folks start acting wacky from despair disease felt off to me, because Nagito's behavior seemed perfectly typical of him, whereas Hiyoko's seemed disturbingly deviant. In that scene, her usual malice is dialed all the way up to psychotic sadism.

Then there's Sonia's account of Hiyoko's wardrobe mishap. This serves to set up the idea that Hiyoko left her room to find a mirror, but this idea is never confirmed, and the amount of time it took her to follow Sonia's suggestion seems unlikely. Surely if she liked the idea, Hiyoko would have followed up on it as soon as Sonia was gone. On top of that, it's rather odd that Hiyoko didn't lock her door while she was undressing, and that she was so open with Sonia about her problem.

Finally, the presumed motive for the murder - that she witnessed Ibuki's murder and was killed to keep her from being an eyewitness - is impossible to substantiate. Mikan is so off her rocker that anything she says can't be trusted, and no one else knows.

So here's my theory: Hiyoko contracts despair disease along with Ibuki, Akane, and Nagito, and influenced by that, decides to murder someone. To set up an alibi, she allows Sonia to witness her pretending to have forgotten how to put on her kimono, thinking that no one would believe she would leave her room if she couldn't get her kimono back on. However, Sonia suggests the mirror; Hiyoko realizes her alibi won't hold because it's plausible that she would sneak out to get to the mirror. So she waits for long enough for it to be assumed that she didn't follow Sonia's advice, then heads out to find a victim. She encounters Mikan, who then kills her in self-defense.

Thoughts? Contradictions I've overlooked?

[Hurkyl]

IMO Nagito's behavior is very atypical. While it's true he's perfectly willing to lie, IIRC it's normally done with concrete goals in mind -- e.g. when he needed to get Hiyoko out of her room so he could inspect her sandals (and for Hajime to be able to get her testimony). And IMO a lot of the seeming lies can be attributed to his alien worldview rather than actually being mistruthful.

But under the despair disease, IIRC his lies were rather pointlessly delusional. And wasn't he rather anti-"Hope" under the influence of the disease, as opposed to his usual near-total faith in the concept?

Anyways, for what it's worth, Hiyoko's inability to put on her kimono was set up in chapter 2. Mahiru supposedly taught her after their bath, but that would have just been the one time. I'm sure it's in character for her to invent that as a reason to get close to Mahiru... but I think it would be very out of character for her to humiliate herself by getting stinky from not bathing, so I don't think that's a plausible way out.

I read Hiyoko's actions as being more administration oriented, even if they were rather mischievious towards Akane (using her to do exploration duties) and potentially tainted by her resentment towards Fuyuhiko (the quarantine isn't a bad move, but probably a lot easier to suggest due to that bias). She is, IIRC, next in like to be the a clan head, so I find it reasonable that these are actually within her competencies.

But that's just my reading. I don't think anything explicitly supports it.

The thing about putting on the kimono is the only thing I can think of that is a serious strike against the story. It's not completely definitive, since it's at least plausible that the one time with Mahiru might be fresh enough in her mind and/or the thing she needed to finally make it all click despite having worn kimonos for a long time (afaik). I just think it rather unlikely.

[flarefan]

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

IMO Nagito's behavior is very atypical. While it's true he's perfectly willing to lie, IIRC it's normally done with concrete goals in mind -- e.g. when he needed to get Hiyoko out of her room so he could inspect her sandals (and for Hajime to be able to get her testimony). And IMO a lot of the seeming lies can be attributed to his alien worldview rather than actually being mistruthful.

But under the despair disease, IIRC his lies were rather pointlessly delusional. And wasn't he rather anti-"Hope" under the influence of the disease, as opposed to his usual near-total faith in the concept?

You forget, his philosophy of hope also includes instigating despair, supposedly so that hope's eventual triumph will be all the more glorious.

Indeed, Nagito's words and actions in the game in general remind me of a character in The Helpers by Stanley Winchester (one of the many pseudonyms employed by the brilliant Samuel Youd). The hero is a psychiatrist who has long since realized that his patient is a potentially unstable sociopath, but he lacks the evidence to get him certified, and the patient refuses to admit his problem, so they carry on with sessions that they both know are futile. In one scene the patient tells his doctor about a dream he had and offers up his own interpretation, asking the doctor if he agrees. The doctor answers, "Hard to say. It's all a bit of a smokescreen at this point."

In the same way, I see little reason to trust Nagito's own interpretation of his behavior. He seems to be consistently trying his best to keep the other characters confused and uncertain of what he wants and why.

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

Anyways, for what it's worth, Hiyoko's inability to put on her kimono was set up in chapter 2. Mahiru supposedly taught her after their bath, but that would have just been the one time. I'm sure it's in character for her to invent that as a reason to get close to Mahiru... but I think it would be very out of character for her to humiliate herself by getting stinky from not bathing, so I don't think that's a plausible way out.

Oh, I'm not doubting that she didn't know how to put it on to begin with, just that she would forget how to put it on and then let people see that she had taken it off and forgotten how to put it back on. I mean, Kazuichi or Hajime could just as easily have walked in on her state of undress.

[#KR4B]

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