Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc

Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc

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Alien Oscar Oct 22, 2019 @ 1:16pm
Chapter 5
Why in the chapter 5 execution Alter ego saved Makoto but did not saved Kyoko
The story would have played out in the same way, monokuma unlocked everything anyway so the key was useless
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Runa Silvertongue Oct 24, 2019 @ 6:40am 
Not true. Alter Ego didn't save Kyoko because she wasn't the Ultimate Lucky Student, hence the "bad end" with Hina, Byakuya, Hiro, and Makoto. It only played out the same way because Makoto knew that the correct answer was to depend on his luck and his faith in Kyoko.
Alien Oscar Oct 24, 2019 @ 8:04am 
Originally posted by Debra Kadabra:
Not true. Alter Ego didn't save Kyoko because she wasn't the Ultimate Lucky Student, hence the "bad end" with Hina, Byakuya, Hiro, and Makoto. It only played out the same way because Makoto knew that the correct answer was to depend on his luck and his faith in Kyoko.

Sounds a little like bs that it happens because she is not "lucky". Besides Makoto does not have some kind of special luck he is just the Ultimate Lucky Student because he happened to win the lottery, his luck was never a factor again in the whole game.

Makoto actual ability is the Ultimate Hope as demonstrated various times in the game
Runa Silvertongue Oct 24, 2019 @ 8:32am 
You're jumping ahead on the Ultimate Hope thing. Even though he felt that he was an ordinary, average high school student, Makoto's luck is an intangible that truly made him an Ultimate.

As for Kyoko, it's not BS that she wasn't saved by Alter Ego. Her talent was unknown at that point (but pretty obvious), but it didn't include the intangible luck that Makoto had. HER luck was to survive so that she could redeem herself and save Makoto with the Master Key she found before that trial (the same key that he KNEW that she had).

This whole set up of what appears to, at that point, to be an unsurvivable happening is duplicated elsewhere in the franchise but I won't spoil that. I will say that Kodaka set the ending up this way purposely to demonstrate that intangible luck can be a huge factor in the killing game.
Last edited by Runa Silvertongue; Oct 24, 2019 @ 8:34am
Alien Oscar Oct 24, 2019 @ 12:09pm 
Originally posted by Debra Kadabra:
You're jumping ahead on the Ultimate Hope thing. Even though he felt that he was an ordinary, average high school student, Makoto's luck is an intangible that truly made him an Ultimate.

As for Kyoko, it's not BS that she wasn't saved by Alter Ego. Her talent was unknown at that point (but pretty obvious), but it didn't include the intangible luck that Makoto had. HER luck was to survive so that she could redeem herself and save Makoto with the Master Key she found before that trial (the same key that he KNEW that she had).

This whole set up of what appears to, at that point, to be an unsurvivable happening is duplicated elsewhere in the franchise but I won't spoil that. I will say that Kodaka set the ending up this way purposely to demonstrate that intangible luck can be a huge factor in the killing game.

How do you know Makoto has a huge luck?
In the entire game the only lucky thing that happened to Makoto is winning the lottery. Not even in his internal monologues does he mention having luck all the time. Besides the Alter Ego situation is not luck at all.

Luck is winning in situations where random chance is involved and coincidences. Alter Ego involvemnt was not coincidence or luck, when Makoto decided to reveal Kyoko secret or not Alter Ego was there.

Luck isn't a reality manipulation field. It affects chances, it does not warp reality.
Runa Silvertongue Oct 24, 2019 @ 6:54pm 
I know BECAUSE of Alter Ego saving him and not Kyoko. You could say that his only luck was winning the lottery, but that is just a very small part of what makes Makoto truly lucky.

I disagree that Alter Ego saving Makoto and not Kyoko isn't luck. If it was what you claim it is, ANYONE who would've been the "blackened" in the trial would've been saved by AE, which was clearly shown NOT to be true when Kyoko was declared to be the blackened instead of Makoto.

In real life, luck truly is what you state. The same doesn't hold true in Danganronpa.
Alien Oscar Oct 24, 2019 @ 11:14pm 
Originally posted by Debra Kadabra:
I know BECAUSE of Alter Ego saving him and not Kyoko. You could say that his only luck was winning the lottery, but that is just a very small part of what makes Makoto truly lucky.

I disagree that Alter Ego saving Makoto and not Kyoko isn't luck. If it was what you claim it is, ANYONE who would've been the "blackened" in the trial would've been saved by AE, which was clearly shown NOT to be true when Kyoko was declared to be the blackened instead of Makoto.

In real life, luck truly is what you state. The same doesn't hold true in Danganronpa.

Lol you are making a completely circular argument
Runa Silvertongue Oct 25, 2019 @ 1:00am 
And you're not understanding an important concept that Kodaka wrote into the franchise. Good luck with that.
GreedyElephant Oct 25, 2019 @ 7:33pm 
Although it isn't all tha much established in canon of the first game it is made very clear in the extra Danganronpa content that Makoto has actual supernarutal luck abilities. Which is why that all happened, it's the canon explanation. I know it may not be very satisfying but that's the answer to your question.

I don't get why you keep arguing against it, if you want call it plot BS, which is perfectly reasonable I guess, then that's fine. But there is no other posible reason other than that. I guess if you wanted to maybe you could say AE reacted more readily towards Makoto's life being endangered since he was the one to say he saw AE as a friend and that incited it to save him but even then that dosen't make enough sense since AE also saw Kyoko as a good friend.

The luck explanation is the most reasonable one, again, becuase of the established existence of Makoto's amazing luck, even if it's not very established in the first game. Wether you decide to accept that is up to you but that's jsut the best explanation.

Also the Key wasn't useless, because it allowed Kyoko and Makoto to get out of the garbage disposal to get Monokuma to unlock the doors and also was a piece of evidence that allowed you to (if you wanted the bad ending) call out Kyoko.
Alien Oscar Oct 25, 2019 @ 8:42pm 
Originally posted by GreedyElepahnt:
Although it isn't all tha much established in canon of the first game it is made very clear in the extra Danganronpa content that Makoto has actual supernarutal luck abilities. Which is why that all happened, it's the canon explanation. I know it may not be very satisfying but that's the answer to your question.

I don't get why you keep arguing against it, if you want call it plot BS, which is perfectly reasonable I guess, then that's fine. But there is no other posible reason other than that. I guess if you wanted to maybe you could say AE reacted more readily towards Makoto's life being endangered since he was the one to say he saw AE as a friend and that incited it to save him but even then that dosen't make enough sense since AE also saw Kyoko as a good friend.

The luck explanation is the most reasonable one, again, becuase of the established existence of Makoto's amazing luck, even if it's not very established in the first game. Wether you decide to accept that is up to you but that's jsut the best explanation.

Also the Key wasn't useless, because it allowed Kyoko and Makoto to get out of the garbage disposal to get Monokuma to unlock the doors and also was a piece of evidence that allowed you to (if you wanted the bad ending) call out Kyoko.

When the game came out that was not established so it might as well be plot duct tape.
When I said the key was useless I meant to say that if Makoto would have called out Kyoko and AE would have saved her and then she would just waltz in again. But there was no use afterwards use of the key. the key was supposed to be Monokuma Achilles heel in chapter 5 but ended up being overriden anyway.
GreedyElephant Nov 6, 2019 @ 5:06pm 
Yeah, that's fair. Overall the whole luck explanation isn't valid at that point in the seires. Later on they retcon it so that the reason Makoto isn't THAT lucky in dr1 is because his luck only activates when he's in danger. But overall there is no denying that they hadn't thought of it at the time.

There is no denying that when they were in dr1 they wanted to make it so that Makoto didn't ACTUALLY have luck abilities but the only real explanation is luck as there is nothing else.
Électro_Wave Dec 1, 2023 @ 6:16am 
It's been a long time, but I think of another reason why Alter Ego didn't help Kyoko, which is a bit more concrete than the "Makoto just dreamed the bad ending all along" theory. I didn't found it anywhere, so I'll just explain it here; also it reveals the end of chapter 5 so don't read any further if you haven't finished it.

To understand, first we have to go back to school life, when you can explore that trash room's trapdoor there: https://imgur.com/6Nn9iRm. Makoto examines it and finds out the trapdoor won't open because of a padlock which is situated above the trapdoor as we can see; and thus, it's unaccessible from below. Also later in the good ending, Kyoko explains to Makoto that he will be able to open it from inside since she unlocked it before coming down (so, unlike the room doors, it was still effectively locked).

But then, just imagine what would have happened if Alter Ego let Kyoko fall into the garbage. She would have climbed up the ladder, and then have been stopped at the trapdoor because the padlock is above it; she wouldn't be able to go out even with the special key, and especially because she possesses it, none of the others would have be able to unlock the trapdoor since door breaking is prohibited at this point, so she would just have died of thirst I guess x)

And that settles it, from then Alter Ego surely had this information somehow, like by accessing the trash room camera in the network or stuff like that, and so he just ended her suffering.

Just a personal thinking, but for me this theory fits the tone of Danganronpa better than just admitting Makoto is luckier than Kyoko.
Last edited by Électro_Wave; Jun 8, 2024 @ 9:04am
MARTHER Jun 8, 2024 @ 8:42am 
It's a fundamental question of interpretation.

In the trial in Chapter 5, "the charges against Kyoko were not cleared".
Just another culprit was designated.

1.Strangely, the mastermind is "alone" and executes the chairman at the beginning of the story. There should have been an effective execution time, such as setting an example to Makoto and the others...

2.The only other character who rebels against the chairman is Kyoko.
※It later turned out to be a misunderstanding.

3.During the event in chapter 5, there is a scene where Kyoko and the mastermind switch places.

Although details are not disclosed in the scenario,
What if the chairman and Kyoko are deeply involved in the identity of the mastermind ?
The "mastermind himself" probably doesn't want Kyoko to die,
as they share a common trait of negative feelings towards the chairman.
Therefore, if Kyoko is executed, there will be no point in continuing the game for the mastermind. -> GameOver
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