First impressions

[flarefan]

After completing chapter 1:

1. The dialogue is consistently good. I find myself pretty rapidly clicking to advance the story, rather than periodically pausing to carefully read over a line because my attention was wandering from boredom.
2. I really like how the game plays off the absurdities of its premise for horror rather than ignoring them, like how the characters keep questioning how Manakuma could have kidnapped so many people without triggering a massive manhunt. It leads me to accept that regardless of whether or not a satisfying explanation for these questions is coming, the situation is real to the characters.
3. The suspicion around Makoto felt very contrived. I'll buy that someone would jump to him as a suspect, but why doesn't anyone realize that for the killer to murder someone in their own room makes no sense whatsoever? Anyone who trusted the murderer enough to visit their room alone at night would trust them enough to let them into their own room.
4. No one noticing that Sakaya wrote Leon's name on the wall was just plain ridiculous. Who the heck would look at a final message from a murder victim and assume it's a number sequence rather than the killer's name? Undoubtedly this plot point was based around the complicated Japanese writing systems and just got totally lost in translation, but all the same, I was repeatedly face-palming at how long it took the characters to figure out something that was obvious at the first glance.
5. Sakaya's murder plot was a great twist. I naturally picked up on the hints that she was thinking about killing someone, but I wasn't expecting her to make a chump out of Makoto. I buy Kyoko's interpretation that Sakaya's relationship with Makoto was to at least some extent sincere; I don't understand why this didn't occur to Makoto, but she got friendly with him before the whole "Kill someone to get out" scheme was revealed. Besides, including someone who was a deceitful femme fatale to begin with wouldn't seem to fit with Manakuma's setup.
6. I didn't want any of the characters to turn out to be murderers (except Toko, a little). Mark of a great cast of characters, I think.
7. The rail shooting and rhythm game elements feel like incredibly forced attempts to increase the interactivity. They don't even remotely feel connected to the story's action.
8. The dating game elements are a decent side element at worst, but they're a bit perplexing. With characters getting routinely killed off, surely it's impossible to get a full score on a sizable percentage of the cast?

[Hurkyl]

Regarding point 4, even in the original Japanese, the dying message was written in the same upside-down English we get, so it is indeed less obvious to Japanese players. I think we just have to accept there really wasn't a good way to localize this aspect of the mystery.

I've seen a handful of subtitled clips from Japanese steamers playing through this chapter, and none of them figured it out until the trial. It varied just how quickly they caught on once the subject was brought up.

And FWIW, I have seen one or two English streamers not catch on immediately as well.

There's another thing that obscures this in the original Japanese: I believe the students generally refer to each other by family name, so they would have known him better as "Kuwata" than as "Leon"


Regarding point 7, it's a mixed bag. Some people don't like the minigames, although they usually don't have complaints about the nonstop debate, which is the majority of the action. I generally liked them, since I really enjoy the feeling of multitasking. It's actually why I bought the game rather than watched a playthrough on youtube.

The English localization is really bad at explaining the minigames, though, so a lot of people get a poor opinion because their first impression is frustration with not knowing what's going on. I don't know if it's so bad in the original Japanese, but it's really bad in English through the whole series.


Regarding point 8, your progress with free time events (and monocoins, gifts, unlockables, and so forth) are attached to a save file. So you keep all of that progress if you use your save file to start a new playthrough or go back to a previous chapter.

Furthermore, once you finish the main story, it unlocks a bonus game mode you can use to go through the free time events you missed, as well as some bonus content. It's attached to a simplistic resource-gathering minigame.

[flashwar2006]

ok thanks

[flarefan]

Messaggio originale di Hurkyl:

And FWIW, I have seen one or two English streamers not catch on immediately as well.

That's crazy. Are you sure they weren't just playing it up for drama? I mean, I have a B.A. in math, and even I can't think of a single instance where I saw a word and mistook it for a number.

Messaggio originale di Hurkyl:

There's another thing that obscures this in the original Japanese: I believe the students generally refer to each other by family name, so they would have known him better as "Kuwata" than as "Leon"

I dunno, it seems to me that if Leon is at all a common name in Japanese, not remembering that one of the suspects has that name wouldn't in any way affect your ability to recognize that name. And if it's a highly uncommon name in Japanese, you'd think it would stick in your memory after Leon introduced himself.

Messaggio originale di Hurkyl:

The English localization is really bad at explaining the minigames, though, so a lot of people get a poor opinion because their first impression is frustration with not knowing what's going on.

The poor explanations are frustrating, no question, but dragging a roaming cursor to words doesn't make the experience any more fun or immersive for me, either. That's the exact same thing I have to do when I'm writing something and the mouse cursor is glitching out.

Messaggio originale di Hurkyl:

Regarding point 8, your progress with free time events (and monocoins, gifts, unlockables, and so forth) are attached to a save file. So you keep all of that progress if you use your save file to start a new playthrough or go back to a previous chapter.

Furthermore, once you finish the main story, it unlocks a bonus game mode you can use to go through the free time events you missed, as well as some bonus content. It's attached to a simplistic resource-gathering minigame.

Cool. Still seems an odd way of doing it, though. I mean, I can't think of another dating sim where you can score affection points with people who are no longer around. (I almost wrote "with dead people", but then I realized that there must be dating sims out there where the options include a ghost or vampire or something.)

Also, I forgot to include in my initial post:

9. I'm amused that Makoto didn't guess what Kyoko's specialty is after witnessing her behavior during the investigation and the trial. If the next killer has any sense, their target will be Kyoko.

[Hurkyl]

Messaggio originale di flarefan:

I dunno, it seems to me that if Leon is at all a common name in Japanese, not remembering that one of the suspects has that name wouldn't in any way affect your ability to recognize that name. And if it's a highly uncommon name in Japanese, you'd think it would stick in your memory after Leon introduced himself.

I don't really mean that in a "people forget his name" way, but more in the sense of how much it's on your mind. Generally speaking, you'll be quicker to connect the dots when you keep hearing something over and over rather than having only heard it once or twice a while back.

Cool. Still seems an odd way of doing it, though. I mean, I can't think of another dating sim where you can score affection points with people who are no longer around. (I almost wrote "with dead people", but then I realized that there must be dating sims out there where the options include a ghost or vampire or something.)

It's not really a dating sim; people just throw around that term in a tongue-in-cheek way for any game with a mechanic that tracks your relationship with other characters.

In this game, it's more about getting to know the personalities and backstories of the other characters: a way to learn more about the characters you're curious about.

(it also serves as a way to gate-keep skills, for people who want to use those in the trials)

(well, the bonus content they included with the extra game mode is a bit more dating sim-like, but you don't have to do that if you're just interested in the free time events)

[flarefan]

Messaggio originale di Hurkyl:

I don't really mean that in a "people forget his name" way, but more in the sense of how much it's on your mind.

Yep, that's exactly what I understood you to mean.

[flarefan]

After completing chapter 2:

1. Already the combination of increasing school area, decreasing student population, and the inaccessibility of Kyoko and Byakuya are making it hard to find anyone to interact with during free time. I've started to just spend time with the first person I stumble upon because there's no telling how long it will take me to find a second person. (three hours later, after the investigation has started) Oh. The map accessed through the main menu has the locations of all the students.
2. Oh. There are right and wrong gifts in this game. Would have been nice if the tutorial had mentioned that.
3. It's getting very weird how trusting everyone is of Monokuma. I could buy it with Sakaya and Leon, since they were seemingly acting out of desperation, but when Byakuya stands there and calmly says that their best hope of getting out is to trust that the psychopath who abducted them will keep his word about letting them go, and no one sees any problem with that reasoning, it rather strains my credulity.
4. Byakuya's argument that the killer must be the real Genocide Jack makes no sense. "Look, here's a file on Genocide's Jack's m.o. that the police never released to the public. So the killer would have no way of knowing that m.o. unless they really were Genocide Jack!" Uh, unless they read through that file, which everyone in the school has had easy access to. I'm getting the sense that Byakuya is the Hugh O'Connor of this game (i.e. acts hopelessly smug to conceal the fact that he's a total moron). Either that or Byakuya is the Mastermind. (Additional evidence: Tells Monokuma outright that he'll kill him if he lets him go as promised, says to Toko "Take a bath. You smell." - what is he, a first grader?)
5. The killer's identity seems intentionally obvious in this one. I'm betting Toko/Genocide Jack is being used as a red herring, and given how pushy Byakuya is with showing you supposed evidence, he's trying to pin it on her. (plays through trial) Called it. Wasn't expecting the added turn with Mondo, though. That may be partly because Byakuya's smugness in his own stupidity is getting annoying enough that I was hoping for him to be the killer, but I give it credit just the same. It had occurred to me that the killer would have to be someone that Chihiro trusted, but I didn't make the connections.
6. It's funny how much more amiable and much less annoying Toko is in her Geocide Jill persona.
7. There's a lot of stuff in this chapter that struck me as weird at the time but I didn't figure out the significance of until the reveals, e.g. Mondo referring to Chihiro as a "dude". Some good clue placement there.
8. Infodumping the killer and victim's entire backstories at the end of the trial is remarkably lazy writing. Please tell me this is the only chapter where they do this.
9. Taka snarking at Monkuma over the lack of education taking place in this school almost made me bust a gut. I didn't know that boy had it in him.
10. I thought this game was going to be mostly point-and-click, but it's clear to me by now that this is a console-oriented game. If I end up getting Danganronpa 2 (and at this point I don't see any reason why I wouldn't), I'll get the Switch version this time.

[Hurkyl]

Messaggio originale di flarefan:

7. There's a lot of stuff in this chapter that struck me as weird at the time but I didn't figure out the significance of until the reveals, e.g. Mondo referring to Chihiro as a "dude". Some good clue placement there.

The series is pretty good at putting lots of little details that are meaningful if you already know what's going on. After playing the series, I started listening to blind let's plays of the game in the background, and have enjoyed catching lots of those little details.

And they're not just for the murder mystery; e.g. if you replay the prologue and chapter 1, you can see Mondo's insecurities coming through in a number of interactions with others. Furthermore, you can see Leon's excuse that "it could have happened to anyone" hits Mondo really hard.

In one of the games, I've even caught a student doing something directly related to an end-of-game twist during a free time segment, although I couldn't possibly noted the significance at the time (I just filed it away as odd, and the meaning became clear at the end).

10. I thought this game was going to be mostly point-and-click, but it's clear to me by now that this is a console-oriented game. If I end up getting Danganronpa 2 (and at this point I don't see any reason why I wouldn't), I'll get the Switch version this time.

Yah; 1 and 2 were PSP games, and v3 was originally for the Vita (and PS4).

[flarefan]

Thoughts as I'm about to head into the chapter 3 trial:
1. That photo of Leon, Mondo, and Chihiro really was pretty freaky. On the other hand, if they're alive that's a very big cheat, and it's hard to think of an explanation for the three of them knowing each other beforehand which wouldn't be contrived and unnecessary.
2. Taka's angst over what happened with Mondo is utterly painful to watch, for all the right reasons. I was impressed that they made those two into such endearing friends with so little development put into that friendship, and the tragic developments following from that really hit home.
3. The emergence of Alter Ego, another startling development in the plot which starts living up to its promise right away. This is shaping up to be my favorite chapter of the game so far.
4. I feel like they give out those coins a bit too easily. I'm only on chapter 3 and already I have over 90% of the presents. And I just acquired Celeste's Raise skill...
5. Why are scissors a bad gift for Genocide Jack? I know, I know, she said she only uses her own special scissors, so story-wise it makes sense, but gameplay-wise it's a bit confounding. Why do they have two different scissor presents if Genocide Jack doesn't want them? More importantly, why do they have bad gifts for Genocide Jack at all when even giving her a good gift earns you nothing - no special event, no page on her report card, no skills, no additional SP?
6. Did... Did Byakuya just boast that he had sex with Genocide Jack? I mean, I don't doubt that he might have, but it's weird that he would feel the need to brag about it.
7. The whole chase sequence with Robo Justice was very intense. Kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time, with one nail-biting development following right after another. Great stuff.
8. Okay, since Hifumi wasn't actually dead, likely he moved his own body and wiped off his own glasses. I hate it when characters ignore the obvious just for the sake of drawing out the mystery.
9. Also, no one questions how Hifumi could know the identity of his killer when the killer was wearing a robot suit the entire time. Honestly, guys... Why is everyone suddenly hating on Yasuhiro? I'll agree that his unique lack of an alibi looks bad, but in their shoes I'd be looking for any glimmer of doubt, and there is very obvious doubt that Hifumi knew who his killer was.

[flarefan]

And after the trial:

1. I'm a bit saddened by Celeste turning out to be the killer; I was hoping that there was more to her than her ice cold goth exterior, though I wasn't betting on it. Hardly a surprise, though. The evidence was pointing too heavily at Yasuhiro for it to be anything other than a frameup, and Celeste's alibi for the time of the initial attack is the one that most easily falls apart under examination: No one was with her, and her injury could have been self-inflicted or inflicted in self-defense. And far better that Celeste be the killer than Hina, Yasuhiro, or Sakura.
2. The characters' interpretation of Celeste's comment "just like those guys" is pretty ridiculous. It's like everyone suddenly forgot that five people were killed before Hifumi and Taka. So much for Makoto's pledge that he can't forget Sakaya's death...
3. But that's still not as ridiculous as everyone arguing over whether or not Hifumi was dead at the time when he was talking to them all. I think this may actually take the gold for the most nosensical plot point I've ever seen. How did they all reach high school without learning that dead people don't get up and talk?
4. The interpretation of Hifumi's last words was yet another ridiculous point. How would Hifumi have known Celeste's real name? And even if he did, why would he call her by that name when he'd never done so before? Isn't a much more natural interpretation that Hifumi was sticking with the original plan of framing Yasuhiro?
5. There are multiple points in this trial where the contradiction was obvious or even explicitly stated by the other characters during the debate, and the game provides no intuitive way of pointing it out. Not to mention that some of them verbal clues in the comic book (which you're largely reliant on since the artist's storytelling skills are lacking) are inherently misleading, like the panel where Makoto asks what Celeste used to entice Hifumi, when the answer is just a drawing of Hifumi himself.
6. So given 2, 3, 4, and 5, this was my least favorite trial so far. That said, the unraveling of the complex comings and goings of the case was very engaging.
7. Plus, Genocide Jack's comments on Justice Hammer 5 and murdergear.com made me totally crack up. Flawlessly histerical delivery from the English VA.
8. Celeste's method of recruiting Hifumi seems a lot more complex than it needed to be... For all Hifumi's talk about hating 3D, I feel like the tea service scene in particular made it clear that Celeste could have had him eating out of her hand like a film noir femme fatale if she wanted. Mind you, I very much liked the more complex scheme, partly because it's an interesting and unexpected development of the Alter Ego thread, and partly because it allows Hifumi to come through the whole murder thing relatively innocent. (I do emphasize relatively... He certainly has no excuse for framing Yasuhiro. And either he planned to be blackened alone, which would have resulted in Celeste being executed along with everyone else, or he was going to help Celeste murder someone else, without any of the excuses he had for murdering Taka. But I liked the big gross dude anyway.)
9. Has the sweet and friendly Hina been replaced by an evil doppelganger, or what? First she assumes the worst of Yasuhiro, and now she's telling Makoto to put the screws to Kyoko. Granted, I do think the characters have been too easygoing about Kyoko's refusal to explain behavior that makes her look guilty as hell, but Hina's gleeful phrasing and grin as she loads the interrogation duties onto Makoto seems uncharacteristically mean-spirited.
10. Kyoko tells Makoto that she searched the boys bathroom and he doesn't bat an eye. Not sure what to think of that...
11. Funny how the Mastermind supposedly has a student spy, yet Manakumo acts like he has no clue about Alter Ego, who all the students have known about for a while. Either his spy has betrayed him, or there never was a spy to begin with.

[Hurkyl]

The devs unfortunately painted themselves into a corner by theming the game about refuting statements (that's what "Ronpa" means; "Dangan" means bullet or other similar projectiles), so characters have to hold the idiot ball a little too much.

The later games are better in this regard, since they also give you the option to support a statement during the nonstop debates.

Messaggio originale di flarefan:

5. Why are scissors a bad gift for Genocide Jack? I know, I know, she said she only uses her own special scissors, so story-wise it makes sense, but gameplay-wise it's a bit confounding.

Hehe, everybody makes that mistake. I've watched a bunch of playthroughs of DR1, and I think literally everyone not using a gift guide that I've seen had thought that scissors were a good idea to give (and that includes myself).

Messaggio originale di flarefan:

1. I'm a bit saddened by Celeste turning out to be the killer; I was hoping that there was more to her than her ice cold goth exterior, though I wasn't betting on it.

There's still room for interpretation, if you like. They way I read the character, she simply accepted the premise of the game: she had to either play to win or die, and had no hope of finding a "third option". So, she treated it like some of the other high-stakes games she'd played in the past.

And she was committed to playing the part to the end. And as an aside, that's precisely what makes her execution so tragic: what could have been more fitting for the character she presented than a medieval witch burning? But nope! She just gets the most banal of deaths of being run over by a truck.

7. Plus, Genocide Jack's comments on Justice Hammer 5 and murdergear.com made me totally crack up. Flawlessly histerical delivery from the English VA.

Hehe, I love that line. :D

8. ... it allows Hifumi to come through the whole murder thing relatively innocent. ... But I liked the big gross dude anyway.)

It's nice to see someone more positive about the character. It's frustrating to see so many people who were turned off by his sense of humor be so... mean about disliking him. And then they take the comic book animations too literally and decide Hifumi was being super malevolent.

9. Has the sweet and friendly Hina been replaced by an evil doppelganger, or what?

Hehe, the hints were there earlier. E.g. she reacted poorly to the idea people might not cheered up by swimming, but that was something she could just dismiss, so it didn't come out very strongly.

One of the things I really like about the writing is that pretty much every character has likable and unlikable qualities and it's sort of interesting to see people react differently to them. A lot of people find her affable enough that this side of Hina is no big deal. I'm in the camp that would really not like to be around her in a situation she might react negatively to.

and now she's telling Makoto to put the screws to Kyoko.

I think you're misreading Hina's intentions there, but I think it will be made more clear in not too long. I'll put it in spoilers in case you want to wait: she's shipping Makoto with Kyoko.

[flarefan]

Messaggio originale di Hurkyl:

The devs unfortunately painted themselves into a corner by theming the game about refuting statements (that's what "Ronpa" means; "Dangan" means bullet or other similar projectiles), so characters have to hold the idiot ball a little too much.

Well, the Ace Attorney games managed to use that same theme without the characters ever having to be idiotic. Not saying it's easy, but it certainly is possible. Thanks for translating Danganronpa for me! I actually looked the game up on Wikipedia shortly after starting the game just to see what Danganronpa means, and oddly, it gives a translation for the subtitle of the Japanese release but leaves "Danganronpa" untranslated.

Messaggio originale di Hurkyl:

There's still room for interpretation, if you like. They way I read the character, she simply accepted the premise of the game: she had to either play to win or die, and had no hope of finding a "third option". So, she treated it like some of the other high-stakes games she'd played in the past.

I enjoyed reading that interpretation. I think I'll stick it in my head canon. But the core reason why I'm disappointed in Celeste is that unlike Sakaya and Mondo (and plausibly Leon and Hifumi), she doesn't have any remorse over what she did. Even at the end, her sole regret seemed to be that she didn't get away with it. It doesn't stop me from sympathizing with her, but I had hoped that deep down she had enough humanity to feel revulsion at the act of murder.

Messaggio originale di Hurkyl:

And as an aside, that's precisely what makes her execution so tragic: what could have been more fitting for the character she presented than a medieval witch burning? But nope! She just gets the most banal of deaths of being run over by a truck.

To be honest, I haven't been able to really follow any of the executions. Between the murky lighting, heavily stylized rendering, and quick cuts... Well, if I hadn't been told so in advance, I wouldn't have even realized the characters are supposed to be dead at the end.

Messaggio originale di Hurkyl:

8. ... it allows Hifumi to come through the whole murder thing relatively innocent. ... But I liked the big gross dude anyway.)

It's nice to see someone more positive about the character. It's frustrating to see so many people who were turned off by his sense of humor be so... mean about disliking him. And then they take the comic book animations too literally and decide Hifumi was being super malevolent.

I was impressed with how far the writers were willing to go with the fanboy satire, e.g. his laptop program fetish. And his English voice is both cute and funny. At the same time, he did have dignity of sorts, and moral standards, most obviously demonstrated by his chivalry towards Celeste. He was more comic relief than a paragon of virtue, but he didn't seem like such a bad guy.

Messaggio originale di Hurkyl:

and now she's telling Makoto to put the screws to Kyoko.

I think you're misreading Hina's intentions there, but I think it will be made more clear in not too long. I'll put it in spoilers in case you want to wait: she's shipping Makoto with Kyoko.

That thought had crossed my mind, but Hina never showed the least hint of romanticism up to this point despite Makoto/Sakaya and Toko/Byakuya providing plenty of shipping fodder, and the notion of Makoto and Kyoko as a couple just seemed too absurd. I mean, pretty much every interaction they've had has been either discussing murder investigations or Makoto telling her how much he loved Sakaya. And much of the former involved Makoto squicking out at Kyoko's cold blooded analytics and willingness to stick her hand into Chihiro and Hifumi's pants.

Now that I think about it, for a virgin Kyoko sure has gotten into a lot of guys' pants... (bah bum tsh)

Anyway, if it is true, that reflects even more badly on Hina than the proposed interrogation. It's way too soon for Makoto to be moving on from Sakaya; no one but James Bond jumps to a fresh lover that quickly. And since Makoto had already met Kyoko at the time he was getting cozy with Sakaya, that matchmaking is offensive to Kyoko as well, treating her as a consolation prize after the girl he really wanted got shived in his bathroom.

(Speaking of which, it's funny how Makoto never comments on the fact that he has to step past the spot where he found Sakaya's bloody corpse every time he takes a wiz. In his shoes, I'd have requested a change of rooms long ago. Remembering her is noble and sweet, but you don't need to bed down at the murder scene.)

[flarefan]

Lots of thoughts on chapter 4:

1. So, by now the hints that this is a post-apocalyptic setting are coming in pretty thick. Thick enough for me to think it might be a red herring, but it's hard to think of a better explanation for why the authorities haven't shown up.

2. Kyoko's anger with Makoto was so obviously feigned that I can't believe he didn't figure it out. I cracked up at "You were happy to hear what I had to say, but now you're unwilling to share?" - the only thing she told Makoto was that she wasn't going to tell him anything. I suspect the whole act was to get the Mastermind to lower his guard by making it seem like she and Makoto are no longer collaborating, but the follow up on this was a bit flimsy.

3. For that matter, why wouldn't Makoto tell her about Sakura? The only conceivable reason is because he didn't trust her not to overreact, and it's ludicrous that anyone would think that of Kyoko (I selected "Tell her" repeatedly because that's what I would have done without hesitation), much less Makoto. This is the guy who blindly followed her directive to go alone to a secret room, got attacked when he got there, and still has not the slightest suspicion that Kyoko isn't playing straight with him. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if he jumped off a bridge because Kyoko told him it would be good for his health. Honestly, you'd think he would have learned something from his experience with Sayaka...

4. Makoto says "The smiling faces of three people" while looking at a photo where Sayaka is the only one smiling. I guess he still only has eyes for her. And damn it, I love that about him.

5. Byakuya's idiocy never ends. He actually thinks the Mastermind would have just told one of them his identity? Why? And what point is there in knowing the Mastermind's identity, anyway? Monokuma's continued ignorance of Alter Ego makes it clear that it can't be any of the students, so that information is useless.

6. They're not leaving you many options for free time now... Not only are we down to just seven students, but both Kyoko and Hina aren't in a talking mood. Thus restricted, I finally bit the bullet and had a talk with Toko. Which turned out to be surprisingly fun. Freaking her out was very satisfying.

7. I was wondering if they'd defy expectation and have the lastest murder victim be someone other than Sakura, but I guess with only six possible victims/killers left there aren't many ways they can be unpredictable with regard to whodunnit and who-was-it-dun-to. A bummer, though. Sakura was my favorite of those who were left.

8. I really dug this trial. Starts out refreshingly straightforward (and after all, you'd expect that at least a few of these guys would be bad at hiding their guilt), then slowly adds in layers of events until you get a complex but coherent scenario. There were no real shocks (I didn't figure out the whole thing ahead of time, but I knew the answer to each mystery as it approached), but the crescendo as everything fell into place was beautiful. The weight of the glass shards was an especially originally clue. I enjoyed that bit.

9. Hiro's "I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong!" got a good laugh out of me. What a lovable doofus.

10. Byakuya's "How can you know what I don't know!?" also got a good laugh out of me. What a doofus. Still not lovable, though.

11. As drawn out as Hina's sob story is, it didn't make me any more sympathetic towards her willingness to kill everyone else, Makoto and Kyoko included. I understand it, but I'm not sympathetic. Especially since a real friend would have realized the suicide note was a fake; from the first moment I saw it I thought, "Wow, that doesn't sound anything like Sakura," though I was ready to chalk that up to bad writing.

12. Monokuma reading everyone the real suicide note (rather than just burning it as soon as he found it) and everyone believing it to be the real suicide note rather than a second fake is ridiculously contrived and lazy writing. It floors me how most of the story is so well-constructed and then novice stuff like this pops up.

13. I don't follow why Monokuma claimed to not know who the blackened was in this case when he obviously did. More than that, I don't understand why no one then questioned how the trial would work, since the entire system relies on Monokuma knowing whether or not they have correctly identified the guilty party.

14. Yeah, it never did make sense to me that the Mastermind didn't know about Alter Ego. I just couldn't think of any reason why he would pretend to not know. I still think that at this point there's 0 possibility of the Mastermind being any of the students aside from Byakuya himself or, a la And Then There Were None, one of the executed students, both possibilities which would make the Mastermind's identity useless to Byakuya.

15. Also, not sure I buy Alter Ego being destroyed. He's a program, not a laptop, and he was hooked into the network, so...

16. I'll admit I was flummoxed for a minute by the late night rendezvous at the data room, but then I realized Kyoko must have been testing for another spy. I guess the Mastermind must not have the manpower to monitor all those surveillance cameras 24/7.

[flarefan]

Not sure if anyone is still reading my verbose reactions, but I'll keep going, if only because I like having a personal log of my first playthrough of a game. As I head into the chapter 5 trial:

1. Well, this chapter has sure been a mind trip, between Makoto's fever dream and all the shocking plot twists. It's been an experience.

2. I don't think I buy that Monokuma played dead just to get their hopes up. The real reason they thought the Mastermind was dead was because of the dead body, and if he's still playing by the rules of the class trial, then that death was not something he could have planned. My bet is that something really did throw a monkeywrench in the Mastermind's plans, though I don't have a good notion of what. Alter Ego, maybe?

3. The TV broadcast twist is kind of weird. They hinted at it too strongly in earlier chapters for it to come as a shock, and it doesn't have any apparent impact. The students would obviously know if such a thing was legal, so a post-apocalyptic setting is once again the logical explanation, which means that they have few if any viewers.

4. Good grief. How many times do they need to repeat the dialogue with Kyoko telling Makoto about the 16th student? Am I going to have to continue reviewing that dialogue every 15 minutes for the rest of the game?

5. I was wondering if Byakuya was going to get smart now that he has joined our side. Apparently not. He concludes that the victim must be the Mastermind solely because she has the key to the data room, assuming without any justification that no one but the Mastermind has the key to the data room and that no one could possibly have stolen a key from the Mastermind. Then he insists that the victim must be Kyoko, forgetting that ten seconds before he was saying that it couldn't possibly be Kyoko, just because a functional Monkuma pops up. And I have to go through another investigation with this guy? Dammit, Kyoko, come back! I can handle your persistent refusal to explain your actions; just don't leave me alone with this idiot and his leaps of illogic!

6. After talking to Byakuya for a while, Makoto jumps to the conclusion that he killed the victim in his bedroom, even though the body was found in the garden four floors above. Is whatever Byakuya has contagious?

7. The decreased number of students presents a conundrum this time. There's no real reason to believe Monokuma's claim that the named students are the only possible victims and suspects, but from a literary perspective, the case involving an unidentified party would be a major cheat. And that means the victim and killer's identities both seem fairly obvious: The victim is Mukuro Ikusaba by process of elimination (plus the Fenrir tattoo) and the killer is Toko.

8. Byakuya's claim that everyone but Makoto has an alibi falls apart under even the most cursory examination, since Toko was alone for several minutes before finding the body. The casualness with which he sent her off alone also casts serious doubt on his claim that they never allowed anyone to be by themselves that night. So Toko is the obvious suspect, but there's room for her to be a red herring.

9. I don't think I've mentioned yet that I really like the music in this game. Very emotionally engaging.

[flarefan]

Finished the chapter 5 trial.

1. Aaaargh. I can't believe I had to go through that entire trial pretending that Toko, who was completely alone when she found the body, had a perfect alibi. They even taunt you with the characters' inability to see the single most obvious fact of this case by having a question where identifying Toko as a suspect makes you lose health.

2. Kyoko gets excused from the idiocy of #1 because she wasn't there when Toko was sent off and it's not really brought up during the trial. But why does she not even attempt to pick at Byakuya, Hina, and Hiro's flimsy alibi? The victim's numerous wounds obviously points to there being multiple killers, so even assuming they were paired up the whole time, that doesn't eliminate them as suspects. Seems like she's losing her touch.

3. The knife having to have been planted after the fact due to it passing through the coat was an unexpected bit of deduction, and pretty clever. Moments like this makes me wish the game allowed you to figure clues out on your own instead of just telling you the answer.

4. Oy, another fake decision. At least this time you get a long dream sequence out of one of the unacceptable choices, but like the first time, the choice Mac takes makes no sense. If Kyoko is guilty, he has no reason to protect her, and if she's innocent, covering up the truth is a very counterintuitive way of getting her acquitted. I'd accept irrationality like that if it were just the character, but forcing you to participate in his poor decision just pulls you out of the game and reminds you that the plot is arbitrarily linear.

5. I'm not gonna lie; watching Kyoko turn on Makoto was heartbreaking.

6. Not only does Makoto continue trusting Kyoko after she blatantly tries to pin the murder on him, but he isn't even angered at being found guilty because of her machinations. I guess he's an old hand now at being used as a fall guy by women he trusted. (Sad but true.)

7. "And he used the last little bit of his strength to do it." Oh, Makoto. You have no notion whatsoever of what a computer program is, do you? It's so weird that lines like this were written by someone who knows exactly what a computer program is.

8. Oh, and let me say "called it" with regard to Alter Ego not being dead.

9. Makoto really hadn't figured out what Kyoko's ultimate designation is by this point? As I mentioned earlier, it's pretty obvious by the end of the first chapter. Makoto can be very slow on the uptake, especially given that he's the protagonist of a murder mystery game.

[Hurkyl]

Messaggio originale di flarefan:

Not sure if anyone is still reading my verbose reactions, but I'll keep going, if only because I like having a personal log of my first playthrough of a game. As I head into the chapter 5 trial:

I am, at least. I couldn't reply when reading it since everything that sprung to mind was verging on spoiler territory.

I wish I had thought to do something like this prior to playing v3 (I posted my pre-trial thoughts for some of those); not only did it help organize my thoughts, but I'm sure at least someone found it interesting, even if I didn't get any replies.

4. Good grief. How many times do they need to repeat the dialogue with Kyoko telling Makoto about the 16th student? Am I going to have to continue reviewing that dialogue every 15 minutes for the rest of the game?

Hehe. Yah, they ran that dialog into the ground. But at least you won't forget about Mukuro Ikusaba, the 16th student lurking about the school. Watch out for her!

8. Byakuya's claim that everyone but Makoto has an alibi falls apart under even the most cursory examination, since Toko was alone for several minutes before finding the body. The casualness with which he sent her off alone also casts serious doubt on his claim that they never allowed anyone to be by themselves that night. So Toko is the obvious suspect, but there's room for her to be a red herring.

Yah, the writers were fairly careless on this one. Remember Hina was sent off, alone, to go fetch breakfast.

9. I don't think I've mentioned yet that I really like the music in this game. Very emotionally engaging.

It is great throughout the series!

Messaggio originale di flarefan:

If Kyoko is guilty, he has no reason to protect her, and if she's innocent, covering up the truth is a very counterintuitive way of getting her acquitted.

I remember that one. I was very much of the "trust Kyoko" opinion... and she was all about not being afraid of the truth, wasn't she? So naturally I chose to pursue the lie.

It hadn't even crossed my mind at the time that the game expected "trusting Kyoko" to mean keeping quiet about the lie to let the discussion go wherever she was trying to go with it.