60 FPS or no buy!

[Defvayne]

I figured I'd start the thread in advance.

Discuss!

[ffleader1]

İlk olarak Bryceless tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak You Schmuck! tarafından gönderildi:

It's got that too, according to Abstraction it supports "Whatever your monitor supports" So using DSR/VSR or custom resolutions mean you can downsample from 4K :)

This guy gets it!

İlk olarak You Schmuck! tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak ffleader1 tarafından gönderildi:

60 FPS really? That's sooo last decade.
At least ask for 4K

It's got that too, according to Abstraction it supports "Whatever your monitor supports" So using DSR/VSR or custom resolutions mean you can downsample from 4K :)

Well, I'm only half joking
If you have played Sound of Drop (doesn't matter really), this is an image from its card:
Miku:
http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steamcommunity/public/images/items/383460/6b1edd472f36adf84430898ff3eacc0ffeb993eb.jpg
(1080p with lots of JPEG artifact)
And THIS is what a 4K image of that ♥♥♥ looks like
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B-RJhHKhMtEedGxOQy11WFRNQ2s
(.png LOLOL so good luck on slow internet)
So, I believe if this game is written in Unity then 4K patch is possible (Ren'Py is somewhat possible too)

[Mairo the bear]

İlk olarak ffleader1 tarafından gönderildi:

Well, I'm only half joking :a_suite_of_parisienne_apprentice:
If you have played Sound of Drop (doesn't matter really), this is an image from its card:
Miku:
http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steamcommunity/public/images/items/383460/6b1edd472f36adf84430898ff3eacc0ffeb993eb.jpg
(1080p with lots of JPEG artifact)
And THIS is what a 4K image of that ♥♥♥ looks like
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B-RJhHKhMtEedGxOQy11WFRNQ2s
(.png LOLOL so good luck on slow internet)
So, I believe if this game is written in Unity then 4K patch is possible (Ren'Py is somewhat possible too)

Umm... That's just upscale of the original image with horrible blurring and saturation... Basically that image is ruined :|

With games, you usually have scaleable elements, these include 3D objects and vector graphics which can include HUD/UI elements. Then there's elements which need to be upscaled/downscaled which are bitmaps, basically most 2D elements including textures. Reason why all 3D games on PC should allow arbitary resolutions is because those objects will scale according to resolution, so it's plain stupid to not allow it in some manner.

With 2D elements things become far more difficult. With pixel art it's easy to just use nearest neighbor to keep pixels as pixels, but everything else becomes bit harder. That's why re-released 2D games and emulators have so many differend upscalers included in them and playing older visual novels with 640x480 on modern monitors are bit pain when games can't upscale themselves at all and fullscreen leaves scaling to GPU which uses bilinear filtering...

With all that said, I present to you waifu2x, with images details actually intact (look at hair for example): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22109306/Kr%C3%A4%C3%A4s%C3%A4/Sound_of_Drop_Miku.png
Problem is that because of limitations and wide variety of scenarios, it's almost impossible to introduce really good upscaling methods into games and especially waifu2x takes so much resources. It took several minutes with 100% CPU usage to render that image alone, so it's not good to use in real time at all. Also upscaling is always upscaling, even if it were that good.

Also game uses SilverWare engine.

[ffleader1]

İlk olarak Hyper Mairo tarafından gönderildi:

With games, you usually have scaleable elements, these include 3D objects and vector graphics which can include HUD/UI elements. Then there's elements which need to be upscaled/downscaled which are bitmaps, basically most 2D elements including textures. Reason why all 3D games on PC should allow arbitary resolutions is because those objects will scale according to resolution, so it's plain stupid to not allow it in some manner.

With 2D elements things become far more difficult. With pixel art it's easy to just use nearest neighbor to keep pixels as pixels, but everything else becomes bit harder. That's why re-released 2D games and emulators have so many differend upscalers included in them and playing older visual novels with 640x480 on modern monitors are bit pain when games can't upscale themselves at all and fullscreen leaves scaling to GPU which uses bilinear filtering...

With all that said, I present to you waifu2x, with images details actually intact (look at hair for example): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22109306/Kr%C3%A4%C3%A4s%C3%A4/Sound_of_Drop_Miku.png
Problem is that because of limitations and wide variety of scenarios, it's almost impossible to introduce really good upscaling methods into games and especially waifu2x takes so much resources. It took several minutes with 100% CPU usage to render that image alone, so it's not good to use in real time at all. Also upscaling is always upscaling, even if it were that good.

I think I have pretty much a good knowledge of what upscaling is and what it will do.
The brightness/contrast can be adjusted, it's just that I like it to be very contrast. :<
Anyway, I reduce contrast and stuff and put yours (left) and mine (right) together
something like this, zoom in 4 times or something
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B-RJhHKhMtEeVHlWc3BEN2hkQU0
As you can see, yours image still have color artifact while mine doesn't.
You see, I have to eliminate the color artifact using PTS surface blur, which will obviously eliminate some other details. But I think it's worthwhile to trade them for a no-color-artifact image though.

Oh and waifu x2 can't upscale 640x480 (.png) image to 4K.
yeah, I know how stupid it sound but it's doable, and with certain adjustment, it may looks really good (well, in my opinion though).

İlk olarak Hyper Mairo tarafından gönderildi:

Also game uses SilverWare engine.

Thanks

Edit 1:After adjusting contrast, I present to you something like this:
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B-RJhHKhMtEeTUgzTi1MUTJrdUE
(I still have to blur for eliminating artifact, but lower contrast...still look not that much different from the old one. Probably I used to much sharpening. I will retry tomorrow)
Edit 2:
Still blur, but extremely loyal in color to the original image
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B-RJhHKhMtEeWEFLZXBQdXpNdUE

[Mairo the bear]

This is going so off topic, but who cares, everyone knows game is 60 FPS and infinite resolution already.

İlk olarak ffleader1 tarafından gönderildi:

I think I have pretty much a good knowledge of what upscaling is and what it will do.
The brightness/contrast can be adjusted, it's just that I like it to be very contrast. :<

That's your personal opinion at that point and I can imagine why oversaturated image would look really neat especially as computer background.
It was just that you were so energetically promoting how great 4K looks, but then it was really blurred, aliased and saturated upscaled image instead
Personally (and objectively) I would like the upscale to match original image as much as possible, meaning that if I watch that image on 1080p monitor, it would look exactly the same as the source 1080p image would (with less compression of course). This is also the reason why I do not usually like many upscale filters as they demolish details and alter the image, at that point nearest neighbor thank you!

İlk olarak ffleader1 tarafından gönderildi:

As you can see, yours image still have color artifact while mine doesn't.

That's because I didn't use jpg artifact reduction at all. PTS surface blur/Selective Gaussian Blur do help, but overuse them and everythings blurred like in your image. Just download image again from same URL for updated version.

İlk olarak ffleader1 tarafından gönderildi:

Oh and waifu x2 can't upscale 640x480 (.png) image to 4K.

Except it can, pretty easily as well:
http://media.alvanista.com/uploads/game/7/27348/medium_1_screenshot.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22109306/Kr%C3%A4%C3%A4s%C3%A4/Clannad_waifu2x.png

E: Don't take this negatively. I also tried to upscale few images using same methods you are to make them better suitable as wallpaper in the past.

[ffleader1]

Still blur, but reduced and extremely loyal in color to the original image
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B-RJhHKhMtEeWEFLZXBQdXpNdUE
So what do you think?
Edit 1: Also, I can't seem to use wifefu x2 properly
Image is too large wtf...I give it the steam direct link to the image.
Edit 2: 1.32 AM here
Waifu x2 is better compared to that, I admit. I will try to reduce blur tomorrow to see if it can beat waifu x2.

[Mairo the bear]

İlk olarak ffleader1 tarafından gönderildi:

Still blur, but reduced and extremely loyal in color to the original image
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B-RJhHKhMtEeWEFLZXBQdXpNdUE
So what do you think?
Edit 1: Also, I can't seem to use wifefu x2 properly
Image is too large wtf...I give it the steam direct link to the image.
Edit 2: 1.32 AM here
Waifu x2 is better compared to that, I admit. I will try to reduce blur tomorrow to see if it can beat waifu x2.

That's starting to look pretty loyal to original image with much less detail loss
Of course there are still some blurring because of the methods used, but that's pretty much the similar result I had with gimp in the past.

Also I'm guessing you are using that online tool which is only used to demonstrate the technology and thus has tons of limitations.
If you are on windows, I guess the easiest thing to use for single images is this: https://github.com/lltcggie/waifu2x-caffe/releases/latest (larger zip at the bottom of the page, program itself is in english)

Also sorry for keeping you awake for something really stupid like this.

[ffleader1]

İlk olarak Hyper Mairo tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak ffleader1 tarafından gönderildi:

Still blur, but reduced and extremely loyal in color to the original image
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B-RJhHKhMtEeWEFLZXBQdXpNdUE
So what do you think?
Also, I can't seem to use wifefu x2 properly
Image is too large wtf...I give it the steam direct link to the image.

That's starting to look pretty loyal to original image with much less detail loss :fhappy:
Of course there are still some blurring because of the methods used, but that's pretty much the similar result I had with gimp in the past.

Also I'm guessing you are using that online tool which is only used to demonstrate the technology and thus has tons of limitations.
If you are on windows, I guess the easiest thing to use for single images is this: https://github.com/lltcggie/waifu2x-caffe/releases/latest (larger zip at the bottom of the page, program itself is in english)

Ok. Look interesting. I don't have class tomorrow morning so I would like to see how this tool can rival PTS

[ffleader1]

İlk olarak Hyper Mairo tarafından gönderildi:

It took several minutes with 100% CPU usage to render that image alone,

What processor are you using?
I can't get mine to use 100% CPU :<
IT use exactly 50% CPU...
Also, do you know what's the difference between your link and this
https://github.com/nagadomi/waifu2x

[ffleader1]

Ok, I get the general ideal.
Waifu x2:
++ Much better and simple than PTS. PTS require much more work to adjust an image, and get worse quality. Thanks for the program.
.. Long render image time. But I don't really care really. I can just leave it there and do smt else, besides, I think it's a fair trade for such good image quality and not much word
-- Use exactly 50% of my CPU. Whyyyyyyyyy :< :< So getting from 1080p to 4K takes about 3.1 minute each image, with half of my PC working.
Edit 1: So get 8 images from 800x600 to 3840x2880 takes 1h36 minutes with half CPU load.

[Mairo the bear]

İlk olarak ffleader1 tarafından gönderildi:

Also, do you know what's the difference between your link and this
https://github.com/nagadomi/waifu2x

My link is basically fork of that which has user interface for converting under windows, so you don't have to manually install stuff and use command line. It's also listed under third party tools.
Of course you can still use that original version, it does the same thing.

İlk olarak ffleader1 tarafından gönderildi:

-- Use exactly 50% of my CPU. Whyyyyyyyyy :< :< So getting from 1080p to 4K takes about 3.1 minute each image, with half of my PC working.

I actually had older version of the program and CUDA didn't seem to work with that for some odd reason. If you are using the newest version then it most likely uses the CUDA by default, meaning that your GPU is used instead and it should be faster. Meaning that lower CPU usage is expected when it's doing lesser part of the work.
You can test that by selecting CPU option instead. Also it most definitely is very resource taxing. People using that for video content say it can take tens of hours to get minute video processed even with highest end GPU :p

My PC specs are always on my steam profile.

[ffleader1]

İlk olarak Hyper Mairo tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak ffleader1 tarafından gönderildi:

Also, do you know what's the difference between your link and this
https://github.com/nagadomi/waifu2x

My link is basically fork of that which has user interface for converting under windows, so you don't have to manually install stuff and use command line. It's also listed under third party tools.
Of course you can still use that original version, it does the same thing.

İlk olarak ffleader1 tarafından gönderildi:

-- Use exactly 50% of my CPU. Whyyyyyyyyy :< :< So getting from 1080p to 4K takes about 3.1 minute each image, with half of my PC working.

I actually had older version of the program and CUDA didn't seem to work with that for some odd reason. If you are using the newest version then it most likely uses the CUDA by default, meaning that your GPU is used instead and it should be faster. Meaning that lower CPU usage is expected when it's doing lesser part of the work.
You can test that by selecting CPU option instead. Also it most definitely is very resource taxing. People using that for video content say it can take tens of hours to get minute video processed even with highest end GPU :p

My PC specs are always on my steam profile.

Yeah...I use AMD GPU
My best assumption is probably due to Hyper threading.

[EclairHolystone]

There's a review on AnimeNewsNetwork that says we got better framerates but really vague and unclear about the extent of it. Then again, they clearly didn't have the Steam FPS counter on, and that a steady 30FPS is still technically an improved framerate over the brief but plentiful segments of choppiness in the Vita version. We'll only know for sure on Thursday.

EDIT: This review:

http://gaminggamma.com/2016/02/16/1465/

Confirms that if you've got anything remotely resembling a discrete GPU it'll easily hit 60FPS. Combined with ANN confirming mouse-aim and it looks like this is gonna be a great improvement.

[Shinrin Cole]

So 60 FPS for this game, that's actually cool for it to be a novel type game, it does have tons of movement in it.