Stardew Valley and Concerned Ape are now totally mainstream- please remove the game from the Indie category.

[Grimbor]

This game has now sold well over 30 million copies. There are now more than the original developer working on these games. Haunted Chocolatier will EA well into 20 million copies. CC is no longer indie nor is the current version of SDV.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by Sinistar_Aries:

That says nothing about it being a large company. You just disproved it completely. Quit trolling and go back to your cave....

it's rather self evident he isn't doing the concert tour on his own. his company is funding it which is awfully similar to acting as a publisher.

i really don't think it's a hot take to say you aren't indie anymore once you start funding other (big) projects.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

Originally posted by Sinistar_Aries:

That says nothing about it being a large company. You just disproved it completely. Quit trolling and go back to your cave....

it's rather self evident he isn't doing the concert tour on his own. his company is funding it which is awfully similar to acting as a publisher.

i really don't think it's a hot take to say you aren't indie anymore once you start funding other (big) projects.

But it's not an external publisher... It's their own company. Funding things related to their own company project.. It's literally a stardew valley tour.

By the currently accepted (admittedly a little vague) definition of indie developer, CA is still indie. It doesn't matter if he's spending his millions doing cool things related to his game; Because it's HIS game, 100% and entirely. There is no publisher behind him pulling the strings and setting the deadlines and funding anything/everything from technical expertise to expenses and wages for the project.

Indie literally stands for independent. Not beholden to anyone else- Not to shareholders, not to a publisher, not to a big corporation, not to a private entity.

[V.V.]

Pretty sure if I asked anyone IRL who Concerned Ape was, they wouldn't know who I was talking about. But if I asked them who Blizzard or Bioware was... they'd know exactly who they are.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

But it's not an external publisher... It's their own company. Funding things related to their own company project.. It's literally a stardew valley tour.

he is external to the orchestras that are hired. (nor does that matter, plenty of game publishers have an in house studio.)

just because he is hiring a concert instead of a game developer to create a product doesn't really matter, he is still hiring a whole team of people to do something. between all the venues there is probably over a thousand paid people involved.

Because it's HIS game, 100% and entirely.

that's true for many game studios. not considered indie too. plenty of them are privately owned too and a fair few privately funded too. e.g. earlier mentioned rich guy that leaves AAA company to start his own studio.

it's kinda like asking if a mom and pops store is an indie store. no it's jut a small business.
or maybe an esty store is a better example, but even there is a mix of hobbyist, people who do it for the dayjob and bigger companies to muddy the definitions.

Indie literally stands for independent. Not beholden to anyone else- Not to shareholders, not to a publisher, not to a big corporation, not to a private entity.

why did you not include employees in this list? that's what typical small private owned companies are beholden too.

but "not beholden to anyone else" could make a decent definition if you include the people working on the game itself. aka when it isn't the dayjob and there isn't any significant loan/collateral/income/assets/risk associated with the project.

Originally posted by V.V.:

Pretty sure if I asked anyone IRL who Concerned Ape was, they wouldn't know who I was talking about. But if I asked them who Blizzard or Bioware was... they'd know exactly who they are.

that's not the correct question. you should be comparing them to companies with similar capital/assets. so for concerned apes case probably in the $50-250m range. blizzard/bioware are measaured in billions.

[Queen Droxxanna]

Originally posted by V.V.:

Pretty sure if I asked anyone IRL who Concerned Ape was, they wouldn't know who I was talking about. But if I asked them who Blizzard or Bioware was... they'd know exactly who they are.

Well if you asked the 30 million who bought the game, we all know who he is.
If you asked people around you the founder of Virgin airlines is, most could not name Richard Bronson either, and he's a billionaire.

To prove my point, I have no idea who Bizzard or Bioware is!

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

But it's not an external publisher... It's their own company. Funding things related to their own company project.. It's literally a stardew valley tour.

he is external to the orchestras that are hired. (nor does that matter, plenty of game publishers have an in house studio.)

just because he is hiring a concert instead of a game developer to create a product doesn't really matter, he is still hiring a whole team of people to do something. between all the venues there is probably over a thousand paid people involved.

Because it's HIS game, 100% and entirely.

that's true for many game studios. not considered indie too. plenty of them are privately owned too and a fair few privately funded too. e.g. earlier mentioned rich guy that leaves AAA company to start his own studio.

it's kinda like asking if a mom and pops store is an indie store. no it's jut a small business.
or maybe an esty store is a better example, but even there is a mix of hobbyist, people who do it for the dayjob and bigger companies to muddy the definitions.

Indie literally stands for independent. Not beholden to anyone else- Not to shareholders, not to a publisher, not to a big corporation, not to a private entity.

why did you not include employees in this list? that's what typical small private owned companies are beholden too.

but "not beholden to anyone else" could make a decent definition if you include the people working on the game itself. aka when it isn't the dayjob and there isn't any significant loan/collateral/income/assets/risk associated with the project.

Originally posted by V.V.:

Pretty sure if I asked anyone IRL who Concerned Ape was, they wouldn't know who I was talking about. But if I asked them who Blizzard or Bioware was... they'd know exactly who they are.

that's not the correct question. you should be comparing them to companies with similar capital/assets. so for concerned apes case probably in the $50-250m range. blizzard/bioware are measaured in billions.

The orchestra isn't considered an 'indie orchestra', though. And hiring that orchestra doesn't make the hiring party not indie. Acting AS a publisher is not working FOR a publisher. Hiring an orchestra isn't the same as handing the reins of Stardew Valley to a third party and saying "Here, you're publishing our title now".


And I didn't include employees on that list because employees are not external to the company. They are, quite literally, internal; Part of the company. They work for the company. They're not external contractors from a third party; They're first party, part of the company.

The company is responsible for their employees, Not beholden to them. The employees are owed their pay for their work, and it is the company's responsibility to pay them. But a company is beholden to a publisher; The publisher can, will, and do exert pressure on the beholden company to cut corners, to push the product out faster, etc.

Perhaps a better way of clarifying the difference here is that the company pays an employee for their work, and gets work done in return in an ongoing process. A publisher however sinks a great deal of money into a company up front and says "Here's your budget, Make the product and I will publish it"; Leaving the company beholden to the publisher until the product is finished and recoups all those losses plus established interest.


As for AAA guys that go solo and make their own company; They'd be indie too by my counting, Provided that they don't use their existing AAA connections to pull in a publisher or otherwise make themselves beholden to External parties....which they often do; Because they have those connections that let them do so and save a penny and get the project done quicker.

[Nakos]

CA is an indie developer. One who, against all odds, has been exceptionally successful.

He's still an indie developer though. He's a video game Auteur, one who wants to control all the aspects of the process, who wants all of it to be his.

He doesn't delegate or hire a lot of other people because he doesn't want to. He clearly prefers to work alone, at his own pace. He probably does have some assistants at this point, but they probably handle the parts that he doesn't want to handle, like ... doing his taxes and scheduling his appointments.

Just because he's a surprisingly successful video game designer doesn't mean he's going to suddenly be okay becoming a general manager. Those aren't the same skill sets, and CA clearly knows what his skill set is quite well.

[xAlphaStarOmegax]

Originally posted by ChrillBill:

Originally posted by Amberbaum:

Ignore this person this is a troll and baiter.

Yeah, they don't even seem to own the game.

Sadly, their trolling has earned them what they sought: a clown award.

[BirbNotBird]

No, I don't think "Indie" tag should be removed from the game and it should stay that way.

Not sure how people just confuse huge sales = no indie.

Indie is just a shortened word of "independent". I think it's just gaming industry has been hella bad with triple or even quadruple A game publishers that some people just jump on the "indies are always small people or studio".

Op is also known to pull ChatGPT out of his body to farming Steam Points. His deleted threads include AI integration into Stardew.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Grimbor:

This is actually a pretty large company now.

Amount of Difference it Makes: Zero
Number of people who care: Zero One, now.
Number of people who SHOULD care: Zero

(Also, as others pointed out, the ONLY thing "Indie" means, and has ever meant, is "self-published".)

[DaBa]

Somebody doesn't understand what the terms mainstream and indie actually mean.

[Grimbor]

It had a publisher at one point though. So it became Indie?...

Chucklefish Limited is a British video game developer and publisher based in London. Founded in 2011 by Finn Brice, the company specialises in retro-styled games. Chucklefish is best known for developing Starbound and Wargroove, as well being the former publishers of Risk of Rain and Stardew Valley.

Games developed
Year Title Platform(s)
2016 Starbound Linux, macOS, Windows
2019 Wargroove Windows, Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, Xbox One
2023 Wargroove 2 Windows, Nintendo Switch
TBA Witchbrook[2] Windows
Games published
Year Title Developer Platform(s)
2011 Wanderlust: Rebirth Yeti Trunk Windows
2013 Risk of Rain Hopoo Games Linux, macOS, Windows, PlayStation Vita, Nintendo Switch
2014 Halfway[3] Robotality Linux, macOS, Windows
2015 Interstellaria Coldrice Games Linux, macOS, Windows
Wanderlust Adventures Yeti Trunk Windows
2016 Stardew Valley[a] ConcernedApe Android, iOS, Linux, macOS, Windows, Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, PlayStation Vita, Xbox One
Pocket Rumble Cardboard Robot Games Windows, Nintendo Switch
2018 Treasure Adventure World Robit Studios Windows
Timespinner[8] Lunar Ray Games Linux, macOS, Windows, PlayStation 4, PlayStation Vita, Nintendo Switch, Xbox One
2019 Pathway[9] Robotality Linux, macOS, Windows, Nintendo Switch, Xbox One
Inmost[10] Hidden Layer Games iOS, macOS, Windows, Nintendo Switch
2021 Starmancer Ominux Games Linux, macOS, Windows
Eastward[11] Pixpil macOS, Windows, Nintendo Switch, Xbox One
2023 Wildfrost[12] Deadpan Games Windows, Nintendo Switch
2024 Loco Motive[13] Robust Games macOS, Windows, Nintendo Switch

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Grimbor:

It had a publisher at one point though.

Your school teachers never taught you that Wikipedia is an unreliable source, eh?

Originally posted by Eric Barone's Personal Website::

I’ve moved to self-publishing on PC, Mac, Linux, PS4, Xbox, and PSVita… Chucklefish is no longer publishing the game on those platforms.

[SolviteSekai]

Stardew Valley stopped being indie the second Chucklefish got involved.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by SolviteSekai:

Stardew Valley stopped being indie the second Chucklefish got involved.

And then Chucklefish was dumped a couple of months later, and CA became his own publisher ever since.

Not sure why this is difficult to grasp.