Profit Margin adjustment does not make sense...

[Mr Velo C. Raptor]

I do not know if I am doing something wrong, but the profit margin setting does not make sense to me.
I wanted to do a hardcore challenge where my profit margin was 25%.
But then the prices of seeds are 25%
Sooooo everything is the same just reduced by 25%?
Robin doesnt seem to be effect (ppbly marnie too). So why are seeds reduced??

[Velvet Waltz]

your profit on something is the money you get for it minus what you had to spend on it.

if you buy seeds for 25 G and you sell the fruit for 100 G, you made a profit of 75G.

when you want to slash the profit to 25%, you can't just reduce the selling price to 25%. in this example, you would have made a profit of.. 100*0.25-25= 0 G. what's the solution? well, the seed price has to be adjusted to 25% too.


I guess they only applied this to the seeds because it's the most direct way where you have to spend money to get money.

[Snowy Sprout]

The price of buildings and tool upgrades stays the same, so you'll have to work harder to afford them.

[PoorMichaelScott]

It's lame and silly and, finally, ironic in that changing the "profit margin" setting actually maintains the same profit margin of each crop.

CA's not an accountant 💁🏻‍♀️

[BirbNotBird]

Originally posted by PoorMichaelScott:

It's lame and silly and, finally, ironic in that changing the "profit margin" setting actually maintains the same profit margin of each crop.

CA's not an accountant 💁🏻‍♀️

Since you said it's lame and silly, please explain to me on this subject. I would like to understand what is your "true 25% profit margin".

For most crops which probably last around 1 to 3 seasons, even far as 1 week, how can you earn income on those crops? All of them is a buy one sell one, and seed maker only available in rank 9.

Until rank 9, buying them will bring a total net loss 75% instead of overall 25% on crops.

So what's your proposal?

[Maya-Neko]

Instead of complaining, it's usually best to do some math to show what you're actually complaining about:

Lets take Cauliflower, since it's easier with higher numbers

On 100 %:
You pay 80 and earn 175, which is 95 of profit

On 75 %:
You pay 60 and earn ~131, which is 71 of profit, which is ~75 % of a profit margin compared to 100 %

On 50 %:
You pay 40 and earn ~87, which is 47 of profit, which is ~49 % of a profit margin compared to 100 %

On 25 %:
you pay 20 and earn ~44, which is 24 of profit, which is ~25 % of a profit margin compared to 100 %

It doesn't matter how much you pay, but it's solely dependant on how much profit you're making. You need to work on 4 times the amount of plants at 25 % to make the same amount of money as you would on 100 %.

It's overall just simpler to implement it this way, since you just multiply it by the profit margin, whereas many other ways would need a way more complex calculation that would just do the exact same thing

Now you can argue "but i can just buy more crops", but the thing is, that there's a limit of how much you can water before your energy is drained or how much crops you can fit on your farm and since other things like buildings still cost the same, they're draining you money much faster when you're still doing the same amount of crops as before.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:

Instead of complaining, it's usually best to do some math to show what you're actually complaining about:

the name of the setting is just poorly chosen.

the definition of profit margin is (revenue - cost) / revenue, which is the same in all examples.

a better name would be profit handicap.

[Maya-Neko]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

the name of the setting is just poorly chosen.

the definition of profit margin is (revenue - cost) / revenue, which is the same in all examples.

a better name would be profit handicap.

Changing the name doesn't mean anything, if people choose to ignore the math behind it to complain about something, that works as expected.

And mind that the cost also includes work time. As i've said, on 25 % you need 4 times the amount of work to get on the same amount of income as on 100 %. That alone lowers the profit margin by a lot already (down to 25 % to be exact, once you reach your limit of either time, space or energy)

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:

Changing the name doesn't mean anything, if people choose to ignore the math behind it to complain about something, that works as expected.

but it doesn't work as expected. it works as a handicap, not as a margin.

if you wanna argue you shouldn't ignore math then by the same token you shouldn't ignore real world definition of a common word.

[Nelly]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:

Changing the name doesn't mean anything, if people choose to ignore the math behind it to complain about something, that works as expected.

but it doesn't work as expected. it works as a handicap, not as a margin.

But isnt a lower margin an handycap?

[Mr Velo C. Raptor]

thanks all, much clearer now.

[Maya-Neko]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

but it doesn't work as expected. it works as a handicap, not as a margin.

if you wanna argue you shouldn't ignore math then by the same token you shouldn't ignore real world definition of a common word.

Why doesn't it work?
When i first used that setting, i expected to only get 25 % of the profit for the same time of work being done and that's what i got.

And the thing is, that i did ignore the definition of handicap specifically because it works against you as well and i'm simply not a fan of twisting other peoples words just to create a problem out of thin air.

But since you're insisting on it:

A handicap has usually 2 meanings:
1) Being at a disadvantage over competitors, but you don't have any, so this isn't really fitting. Also a handicap in this regard is usually something you can't choose yourself (like a disability or your social status), which isn't the case if you specifically choose it to have more fun.
2) A way to balance the difference in skill between people in a sport. But again, that needs you to compete against someone, which again isn't the case or at least not the intended goal of this setting.

[PoorMichaelScott]

Before criticizing, it's usually a good idea to know definitions.

Profit margin is the proportion of revenue which is new (ie profit)
(175-80)/175 = 54% profit margin
(131.25-60)/131.25 = 54% profit margin
(87.5-40)/87.5 = 54% profit margin
(43.75-20)/43.75 = 54% profit margin

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:

Instead of complaining, it's usually best to do some math to show what you're actually complaining about:

Lets take Cauliflower, since it's easier with higher numbers

On 100 %:
You pay 80 and earn 175, which is 95 of profit

On 75 %:
You pay 60 and earn ~131, which is 71 of profit, which is ~75 % of a profit margin compared to 100 %

On 50 %:
You pay 40 and earn ~87, which is 47 of profit, which is ~49 % of a profit margin compared to 100 %

On 25 %:
you pay 20 and earn ~44, which is 24 of profit, which is ~25 % of a profit margin compared to 100 %

It doesn't matter how much you pay, but it's solely dependant on how much profit you're making. You need to work on 4 times the amount of plants at 25 % to make the same amount of money as you would on 100 %.

It's overall just simpler to implement it this way, since you just multiply it by the profit margin

A lot of twisted words in here but I agree, let's look at cauliflower.

[BirbNotBird]

Originally posted by PoorMichaelScott:

Before criticizing, it's usually a good idea to know definitions.

Originally posted by PoorMichaelScott:

It's lame and silly and, finally, ironic in that changing the "profit margin" setting actually maintains the same profit margin of each crop.

If you can't make anything beside throwing shade each post, I advise you to stay off this topic.

Profit margin is (revenue-cost)/revenue aka profit/revenue, which is correct since it's about how much actual income.

However, I believe there is a major flaw in the "seed cost only" calculation. You excluded other costs/variables and insisted on only price of product.

This misses out a lot of nuances, since opportunity cost aka cost incurred from losing alternatives choices like ranching/fishing/mining/foraging exists. In real life, we account for this too.

Originally posted by PoorMichaelScott:

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:

It doesn't matter how much you pay, but it's solely dependant on how much profit you're making. You need to work on 4 times the amount of plants at 25 % to make the same amount of money as you would on 100 %.

A lot of twisted words in here but I agree, let's look at cauliflower.

No twisted words, Maya explained efforts > profits. Let take a look on actual costs of most items in Stardew.

Player's Energy + Time + Opportunity cost (Money)> Monetary profit

Other alternatives like fishing/ranching uses (money or energy > pernament income). Both of them requires first time only purchase of necessity, and can carry over throughout many seasons.

Coop > have chickens forever. You waste only time in long run. Eggs are daily products.
Fishing > fishes everywhere. You cost only time and energy once you get an okayish rod. Fishes are stamina refill on the job.

Unlike others, farming requires annual purchases of crops which will soon be perished in 1 to 2 seasons. This means you have to refill the opportunity cost (money) every year aka every season. And nothing on the farm will get you stamina refill asap.

We don't account for seed makers since it's lv9 farming grind or dye bundle costs too many to be viable. Former alternatives can be set up in early game and remain long term money printer.

So no, you are dodging the reality of profit margin, whether unintentionally or not. Opportunity costs for farming can be significantly higher than alternatives since seeds are annually purchased, no stamina foods available during farming activities.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:

Why doesn't it work?
When i first used that setting, i expected to only get 25 % of the profit for the same time of work being done and that's what i got.

the key question is did you expect the seed price to be lowered before you started using it or not?

cause with a margin that's not the first thing that comes to mind, while handicaps are often just blanket percentage multipliers on everything.

But again, that needs you to compete against someone, which again isn't the case

you can compete against yourself, against computers and even against inanimate objects just fine. people do it all the time.

thats kinda why you use this feature in the first place.

[PoorMichaelScott]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

Originally posted by Maya-Neko:

Why doesn't it work?
When i first used that setting, i expected to only get 25 % of the profit for the same time of work being done and that's what i got.

the key question is did you expect the seed price to be lowered before you started using it or not?

Of course not, because that would make no sense.