Makeing wine vs jelly?

[Ryu]

what is better for profit?

This si how i see it but feel free to tell me if i'm wrong

low price fruits trun into jelly this is do to the fact the selling point is 50gx2 the base price

or that is what i heard.

Make high selling fruits into wine this is do to the fact the 50g will not do much for the fruit makeing the 3 times sell value worth it :)

However i'm not sure if the time driffence is worth it if i'm right jelly takes 4 days and wine take 6 so is it still worth it to make wine?

[Saluki]

You make more money per day making jelly than wine.

Thats what the OP asked. He didnt ask how to make an optimized farm.

[PhilkIced]

Originally posted by Saluki:

You make more money per day making jelly than wine.

Thats what the OP asked. He didnt ask how to make an optimized farm.

You don't, if you have 1 keg/jar for every starfruit, you take 13 days to make each jelly and 13 days to make each wine, now divide the final price of the jelly and the wine both by 13 and see which gives more per day, that's why growth time is important, now if you have 300 starfruits per keg you should build more kegs, not stuff them on jars.

[Saint Landwalker]

It kills me that I don't have time to actually algebra-ize all of this out and give a post that shows my work and everything.

However, in lieu of that, I'm going to ramble about the importance of considering the time value of money. Even if you're getting less gross revenue per fruit by stuffing it in a jar, you're getting that money faster (and, again, assuming an infinite surplus of inputs, you're getting more cash per day from jars, but that's not the point of this particular post).

Let's say you have a 300g base-value crop.

You can get 650g in 2.4 days, or you can get 900g in 5.95 days (which is what a keg works out to if you sleep at midnight each night).

If you use the keg, you'll get more gross revenue for that one input. If you use the jar, you'll get less revenue, but you'll get it three and a half days earlier. So how much do you value the extra 250g? How much do you value three and a half days of waiting? If you reinvest that 650g right now, can you earn an extra 250g worth of value in the span of 3.5 days?

[PhilkIced]

Originally posted by Landwalker04:

It kills me that I don't have time to actually algebra-ize all of this out and give a post that shows my work and everything.

However, in lieu of that, it's also important to consider the time value of money. Even if you're getting less gross revenue per fruit by stuffing it in a jar, you're getting that money faster (and, again, assuming an infinite surplus of inputs, you're getting more cash per day from jars, but that's not the point of this particular post).

Let's say you have a 300g base-value crop.

You can get 650g in 2.4 days, or you can get 900g in 5.95 days (which is what a keg works out to if you sleep at midnight each night).

If you use the keg, you'll get more gross revenue for that one input. If you use the jar, you'll get less revenue, but you'll get it three and a half days earlier. So how much do you value the extra 250g? How much do you value three and a half days of waiting? If you reinvest that 650g right now, can you earn an extra 250g worth of value in the span of 3.5 days?

Fair enough.
But I really didn't know that sleeping midnight made a difference, i thought it was a fixed number of days, not a number of hours awake, very insteresting info.

[Saint Landwalker]

Originally posted by PhilkIced:

Fair enough.
But I really didn't know that sleeping midnight made a difference, i thought it was a fixed number of days, not a number of hours awake, very insteresting info.

A keg takes 10,000 minutes. A jar takes 4,000 minutes.

However, time passes at different rates depending on whether you're awake or asleep.

If you're awake, every 60 minutes you're awake is 60 minutes of "processing time." If you're asleep, however, every 60 minutes of sleeping is 100 minutes of processing time.

So you can actually speed up your refining by sleeping nonstop. Of course, then you get nothing else done.

[Mackenzie]

Originally posted by Landwalker04:

Let's say you have a 300g base-value crop.

You can get 650g in 2.4 days, or you can get 900g in 5.95 days (which is what a keg works out to if you sleep at midnight each night).

If you use the keg, you'll get more gross revenue for that one input. If you use the jar, you'll get less revenue, but you'll get it three and a half days earlier. So how much do you value the extra 250g? How much do you value three and a half days of waiting? If you reinvest that 650g right now, can you earn an extra 250g worth of value in the span of 3.5 days?

Sure but if you had 500 fruit crops and 500 kegs, you're getting significantly more money kegging them after all processing is done. The max amount of crops you can have to harvest is limited by the farming mechanics. The number of kegs you have is not. Really you only have to wait a max of 6 days for the best payday no matter how many crops you are producing if you have adequate processing means and a bit of patience.

[Saint Landwalker]

Originally posted by Mackenzie:

Sure but if you had 500 fruit crops and 500 kegs, you're getting significantly more money kegging them after all processing is done. The max amount of crops you can have to harvest is limited by the farming mechanics. The number of kegs you have is not. Really you only have to wait a max of 6 days for the best payday no matter how many crops you are producing if you have adequate processing means and a bit of patience.

That's just it. After all the processing is done.

In any case, in your example, you're deliberately using crops as the rate-limiting factor. Which, assuming infinite resources, they are—there's (relatively speaking) no limit on the number of kegs you can fit on your farm, at least not compared to the practical limit on the number of crops you can maintain. And in that scenario, where you have a limited number of crops, it'll be naturally more favorable to put them into kegs to maximize revenue-per-single-input.

[Mackenzie]

That is the main point and most important factor, the physical limitation. Harvested crops.

Harvested crops -> processing to best value -> most profit made

Nothing between that is relevant for the technical accuracy of maximizing profits from every single harvest year in and year out.

Originally posted by Noobmaster:

Makeing wine vs jelly?

what is better for profit?

The answer is making wine.

[Saint Landwalker]

Out of curiosity, what do you suspect is the practical upper limit on maximum number of crops you can maintain at a given time? Not "How many can you physically fit on the farm," but "how many can you reasonably maintain"?

(I'm not asking this derisively, I'm just curious. Mostly because I want to then use that number in an example while I continue waiting for a client not to call me.)

[Mackenzie]

Originally posted by Landwalker04:

Out of curiosity, what do you suspect is the practical upper limit on maximum number of crops you can maintain at a given time? Not "How many can you physically fit on the farm," but "how many can you reasonably maintain"?

(I'm not asking this derisively, I'm just curious. Mostly because I want to then use that number in an example while I continue waiting for a client not to call me.)

Are you asking me?

If so, I still haven't optimized my true potential for how much I can actually procure per season yet as I'm only on the first week of spring in year 2 of my second play through.

So far >1,500 crops is looking manageable but I suspect with heavy enough determination and willing to accept even the slightest extra g of profit from seeds planted while possibly fertilizers strategically, this number can be significantly higher, possibly even maximizing sprinkler covered farmland with a balanced remainder of animal buildings for keg storage. I have a lot of seasonal data tests to crack down on to see how much total value I can actually harvest on both per season basis and per year basis..but first I want to just enjoy legitimately building up to those extremely wealthy stages prior to being able to perform such testing.

[Saint Landwalker]

Dang. That is some serious farming.

In any case, I started working out some examples, but it basically boils down to this:

1. If your farm is in a situation where it is limited by the number of crops, then you will not only make more profit per crop by focusing on kegs, but (for fruits with a base value of more than 50g, or vegetables with a base value of more than 200g), you will also make more per day. This is because, in a crop-limited scenario, the refining time stops mattering—after the first cycle, crops will be growing while the keg or jar is working, and almost all crops take longer to grow than it takes the refining process to complete.
   
   This is likely to be true for very end-game farms that take advantage of Pocket Universe Barns as dedicated breweries, since you are otherwise unlikely to have a functionally infinite amount of refining tools, especially now that kegs require oak resin to make.
   
   
2. If your farm is in a situation where it is limited by the number of refining tools, then every refining tool will always be full. As an algebraic matter, then, you will make more profit, period (not more profit per crop, but more profit in any non-infinite period of time) by focusing on jars. This is because jars take significantly less time to process than kegs (exception: pale ale and beer). You can get about 2.47 "rounds" of jar processing for every "round" of keg processing—let's call it 2.5:1 for easy numbers. Which means that for every 3x you make from a keg, you could have made (125 + 5x) from a jar. Unless the base value of your crop is negative, that's going to result in more profit-per-arbitrary-time-unit from your jars.

Again, this all comes down to what "stage of development" your farm is in. Early game, when you don't have ten deluxe barns full of kegs? As long as you can keep them fed indefinitely, jars win. Late game, when you realistically can't maintain an infinite number of crops? Kegs win, no question. And if you want to develop your farm with an eye to the long-term and the end-game, then you'll want kegs even early on—you won't make as much money per day, per week, per season, or per-any-other-time-unit, but you'll be setting up for the point where the balance tips towards kegs.

[Mackenzie]

You are right about stages where processing prowess are in fact the limiting factor over max possible harvest that it would be more meantime beneficial to utilize the more dynamic processing time mechanics to the best of one's advantage and push out the money more quickly and efficiently

That said, this quickly changes if you focus your efforts on overcoming this hurdle as soon as you can manage it. The technically accurate response to which is more profitable remains to be kegs, especially since eventually that is where any well-established vineyard or brewery will work up toward. I do know for a fact even with the oak resin factor that one can attain >1,000 kegs before the end of year 2 if the focus on tappers and tree growth are given some sort of priority between the building up stages from farming/spelunking/fishing.

[Aethon Zerus]

Space needs to be considered as well, especially for late game farms. You could have 1000 kegs, or 400 preserve jars, to go through the same amount of fruit in a given time. That frees up 600 spaces, which could be used for another purpose, or to simply expand the original operation with additional fruit plants and preserve jars.

Let's do a quick comparison taking space into account. With cranberries and preserve jars, the optimal ratio is 3 jars per 2 plants, assuming 3 berries per harvest, to process your entire crop without cranberries waiting in storage or jars going unused. If you dedicate 1000 tiles to your farming operation, you could place 200 units of plants/jars, each generating 3024 gold per 5 days, for 604,800 gold total. With cranberries and kegs, the optimal ratio is 18 kegs per 5 plants. In a 1000 tile area, you could fit 43.5 units of plants/kegs, each generating 9653 gold per 5 days, for 419,906 gold total.

This means that preserve jars are 44% more profitable than kegs when looking at the pure math, at least for cranberries. However, there are many other factors that still need to be factored in. For example, you've got crop growth time, season change, no crops in winter, and extra time spent operating preserve jars over kegs. You also have the greenhouse with extremely limited space which ignores seasons and crop growth period on replenishing crops. All of these things close the gap in favor of kegs, but 44% is a lot of ground to cover. So my advice is simple. Use preserve jars for most things, but use kegs for hops, wheat, and high value crops that are difficult to mass produce (ancient fruit, starfruit, pumpkins, melons).

[Saint Landwalker]

Originally posted by Astral Zenith:

Space needs to be considered as well, especially for late game farms. You could have 1000 kegs, or 400 preserve jars, to go through the same amount of fruit in a given time. That frees up 600 spaces, which could be used for another purpose, or to simply expand the original operation with additional fruit plants and preserve jars.

Not quite. You can fit well over 100 kegs into a 4x7 Deluxe Barn. I have 122 kegs in mine. So if you free up 600 kegs, you've freed up 140 potential crop squares.

[Mackenzie]

Those are some good figures, Astral.

Using those particular space choices your math may have some sound resolve, however it wouldn't be possible to maintain more than a set number of crops per year or season. Even if you went all out maintaining as much procured vegetation as humanly possible you're looking at maybe 2,000 harvestable tiles being maintained at all times, which there is definitely enough space within animal buildings and maybe even on the farmland extra to have just as many kegs available.

Factor this in with crop downtime for an entire season every year (winter), since winter seeds requires a large portion of their own harvest to re-create the seeds reliably you can't really rely on winter figures being anything realistically sustainable, you're looking at virtually an entire season of back keg processing if you're unable to keep up with your harvest regardless, which adds extra breathing room.

Again though, the physical limitation is total number of crops harvested. Processing all of your fruits through a keg is more profitable (total earned from same number of crops) than processing them all of them through preserves.