Using predictors?

[Bnn1]

Is using a predictor an acceptable way to play in the eyes of the community?

As an explanation, I the tools that speedrunners and "pro gamers" use, is a predictor. Stardew valley uses a linear drop table for items from geodes, vendors, ores and such, so you can use a tool to read out your savegame, and it predicts which item will drop from what and when and where. People then go into the Skull Caves and return with dozens of prismatic shards and hundreds of iridium ore, for one drastic example.

To me personally, mods that allow you to, lets say, buy (for money) mega bombs from Clint, are much more acceptable, than a tool that allows you to gain something from doing absolutely nothing. You just go into the skull cave, go to a specific level, and become rich instantly. Meanwhile, if you have bought cheap and usually unavailable megabombs for your first day in the Skull caves, you are technically still cheesing the game, but what good are they. You are still wasting money to buy them, you need to wait for Clint to open, and you need to still be lucky to get drops, often times you blow yourself up with the bombs, and you don't find a guaranteed level of insane loot while just clearing levels of the skull caves and similar activities.

Any thoughts on predictors?

[LT2483]

I think that people can play the game however they want. It's a singleplayer/co-op experience designed for players to have fun in whatever way they feel like, within the bounds of the game.

[ChrillBill]

Play however you want and focus on making your own gaming experience fun. Whatever might have caused you to even worry about such a thing to begin with I would say, just let it go.

[Maya-Neko]

It's a singleplay or coop game, so the only person who needs to accept the way you handle these things are only you and the persons you're playing with if it's coop. I don't see, where other members of the community have any rights to judge anyones decision. Like no matter how much you analyze your games, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

For competitive communities like speedrunning sites however you should obviously take a look into the rules for the category you're running or ask the moderators, if something is unclear. After that do whatever helps you beating others, as long as it's legal. That said, if predictors aren't forbidden here, then it's obviously ok to use them.

[iaregamertom]

Single player, play however you want, nobody else even needs to know, you dont need our permission.
My personal thought, it is cheating, but see my first point, games are supposed to be for fun, play in whatever way gives you the most fun

[Sunny]

Anybody who cares how somebody plays a single player game needs to learn how to mind their own business.

If you're playing co-op, agree with your other players with a conversation.

If you're participating in some sort of competition, follow the rules of the competition.

Beyond that, it doesn't matter. Nobody should care what you do, and you shouldn't care what anyone else thinks.

You are playing this game for you. Play it the way you want. It's entertainment and single player, your fun is the entire point.

[AfRu]

Damn man, predictor? When did this generation get that lazy to do some basic multiplication?

Just look up for the drop chances of your desired item, do all the required mathematical operations in your head and you will get the estimated amount of tries to get your desired item. Heck, put some offset values for the chance number (±25% will be good enough for small numbers, while ±5-10% for bigger ones) to make it more precise.

Don't be lazy man, mathematics is important for your sake in life, even in stardew valley.

[Sunny]

Originally posted by AfRu:

Damn man, predictor? When did this generation get that lazy to do some basic multiplication?

Just look up for the drop chances of your desired item, do all the required mathematical operations in your head and you will get the estimated amount of tries to get your desired item. Heck, put some offset values for the chance number (±25% will be good enough for small numbers, while ±5-10% for bigger ones) to make it more precise.

Don't be lazy man, mathematics is important for your sake in life, even in stardew valley.

That's...not what predictors do. They predict WHERE and WHEN to find something, not how many times to try for it. Like go to floor X, kill mob Y, get loot Z.

[red255]

I am personally not impressed by runs that use predictors or specific highly unlikely seeds to do a task.

I generally click on 'don't recommend user' and don't watch any more of their content.

this is like year 6 of stardew valley, 'community' content creators are going to have some....highly OCD content creations.

not my cup of tea.

LIke if you were doing a minecraft speedrun and you dug up a potential seed where you could get everything rapidly. like in a chest. kinda defeats the whole random purpose.

but I've never been fond of minecraft speedrunning either. But thats my feeling on the matter.

if you manipulate the data, because Concerned ape didn't make the random generator hard to predict, its SUPPOSED TO BE RANDOM. just because you CAN predict it, doesn't mean you SHOULD in a valid run.

its like doing a tool assisted speed run of mario. it proves something can technically be done.

but human methods and human means would not use it.

[Mysterious Sir Knight]

Originally posted by red255:

if you manipulate the data, because Concerned ape didn't make the random generator hard to predict, its SUPPOSED TO BE RANDOM. just because you CAN predict it, doesn't mean you SHOULD in a valid run.

Some people don't enjoy randomness.

[Great Sage Equal of Heaven]

I don't understand what you mean by 'acceptable way to play in the eyes of the community'

Everyone plays as they see fit

Some runs I use predictors, some I don't. Some I use the automate mod, some I don't

Do whatever you want.

[red255]

Originally posted by Mysterious Sir K:

Originally posted by red255:

if you manipulate the data, because Concerned ape didn't make the random generator hard to predict, its SUPPOSED TO BE RANDOM. just because you CAN predict it, doesn't mean you SHOULD in a valid run.

Some people don't enjoy randomness.

Enjoy is a different matter.

but using a predictor invalidates a speedrun much like a TAS would.

its useful for theory crafting.

if its just for 'enjoyment' my views on the matter do not matter.

[AfRu]

Originally posted by Sunny:

Originally posted by AfRu:

Damn man, predictor? When did this generation get that lazy to do some basic multiplication?

Just look up for the drop chances of your desired item, do all the required mathematical operations in your head and you will get the estimated amount of tries to get your desired item. Heck, put some offset values for the chance number (±25% will be good enough for small numbers, while ±5-10% for bigger ones) to make it more precise.

Don't be lazy man, mathematics is important for your sake in life, even in stardew valley.

That's...not what predictors do. They predict WHERE and WHEN to find something, not how many times to try for it. Like go to floor X, kill mob Y, get loot Z.

Oh I got it completely wrong, lol. Still, it sounds kinda lazy though. Destroys the surprise factor in my opinion, if you know what I mean.

[Sunny]

Originally posted by AfRu:

Oh I got it completely wrong, lol. Still, it sounds kinda lazy though. Destroys the surprise factor in my opinion, if you know what I mean.

There's really no need to make a value judgment here. I don't use them, you don't use them, but there's nothing wrong with using them. Some people don't need surprises. Some people don't have the time to invest. Some people just like playing games the way they want to play them. It's fine.

[Great Sage Equal of Heaven]

Why are you making a value judgement on his value judgement? Let the man judge people however he wants to judge people. It's fine.

[Maya-Neko]

Originally posted by red255:

LIke if you were doing a minecraft speedrun and you dug up a potential seed where you could get everything rapidly. like in a chest. kinda defeats the whole random purpose.

Speedrunning is about being the fastest, not about being the most exotic one. You don't blame 100m runners for just concentrating on running 100 meters as fast as possible without making their running style look unique or do you?

Also in most cases there are also unseeded categories for those, who like the randomness more. Obviously takes more time and training, but that doesn't mean, that they're worth more achieving.

Originally posted by red255:

if you manipulate the data, because Concerned ape didn't make the random generator hard to predict, its SUPPOSED TO BE RANDOM. just because you CAN predict it, doesn't mean you SHOULD in a valid run.

Sounds like you've never been part of a speedrun community, because it is rather the opposite. Since RNG-manipulation is possible, it is a skill to actually do that proberly in real time within a run. Ignoring it is possible, but won't get you any fame.

After all, ignoring this part can make the difference between trying to get the world record within 1000 tries due to optimization or within 50000 tries for those who think they're better for not preparing anything. If you feel like the later one is the way to go, then don't let it stop you from trying though.

Originally posted by red255:

but using a predictor invalidates a speedrun much like a TAS would.

I don't see anything in the rules. Obviously SMAPI is forbidden for official runs, but preparing yourself before a run with predictors and mods is definitely allowed.