Granpa's Prejudice

[Wakazu]

Was randomly browsing wiki when I stumbled onto this:
https://stardewvalleywiki.com/Grandpa#Scoring
This is a table of evaluation Granps give the farmer at the end of the second year. And we-e-e-ell, it kinda stinks. I mean the whole game is jumping out of its boots to paint capitalistic pigs of Joja Corp as bad guys, but somehow being a capitalistic pig yourself is totaly fine?
7 total points are placed in cold hard cash, while maxing all your skills (read - learning to live of the land) will only give you 2 points in total.
Completing museum collection - aka showing interest in valley's history and being a huge help to the community - only gives 1 point.
Same for restoring Community Center and giving Morris a boot, aka solving the town's biggest problem.
Same for befriending people.
And what totaly pisses me off - you only get a MISERABLE SINGLE POINT for restoring your house IF you are also married with two kids. Restored the house to live alone? No points for you. Just one kid? Too bad. Invited a platonic friend to live with you instead of a mate? No points.
This is abysmal. Not only this directly contradicts the whole point of the storyline, but it also limits the playstyle quite a lot. What if I don't whant to become a farm tycoon and turn my days into money-making routine? What if I'm ace and want my ingame avatar to be the same? Why add Crobus as invitable tennant if inviting him would screw you up in the long run?
I think this system is long overdue for a fix. Take the points of the money cathegory and instead buff the real nice stuff. Expand on the house and make every stage of repairs give a point, same for each kid and mate \ friend invited. Expand the Community Center and make each completed bundle give a point. Instead of giving a point for everyone befriended, make each character give a point at max level friendship (so that people won't be forced to be nice with townsfolk they don't like). Maybe add in a cathegory for attending festivals (as currently fests are only relevant in year 1 and completely lose purpose further on).
Well, that's my point on it anyway. Thoughts?

[Dylan]

I think you're giving too much thought to a mechanic that is easily ignored.

You mention a "storyline" but working on your grandpa's farm is more a "premise" in function. Additionally, I really do not think some candles should limit your playstyle, since the reward for lighting them all is so miniscule. It doesn't really matter how you perform, screw grandpa! Why would I care about what my grandpa thinks? I saw him for one little cutscene that I immediately forgot about.

[Wakazu]

You know the saying "Devil hides in the details"? That's the case here. It's like a single ball of pepper in your icecream, too little to make it unedible, but enough to spoil the experience. And the problem with little things like this, is that they have a tendency to pile up if not adressed.

[Ryika]

Money in this game is more a metaphor for general game progress than it is "money" in the sense that we use it in the real world. Makes perfect sense that the game would value it highly, since you can generate it through whatever you enjoy doing.

The way you make "money" in Stardew Valley has nothing to do with the negative connotations that are often associated with greedy money-makers in our capitalist system. You're not employing low-paid workers, you're not squeezing money out of others through some shady schemes. Quite the opposite, the way you make money in stardew valley is through hard work, honest labor, and limited automation through machines that you build yourself. Pretty much everything that makes you money only makes you money because you're actually providing a useful product for others.

So I really don't see the problem here. Your analysis seems to rely too heavily on real world comparisons, and does not actually analyze the role that money has in the game.

[Wakazu]

Well, from your point perspective it looks even more needlesly complicated. If we take money as an equaliser of everything you do, then why add another equaliser on top of it? Why don't just use money for the end-of-year-evaluation?
And by the way - no, not every activity in SV provides you money, many are straight up moneysinks (building friendships with townsfolk, for example, is a huge money sinkhole, as even if you don't go for their favorite gifts, you still need to meet them, read - waste your limited daytime on finding them in town). So if I try to play social butterfly, I'll get an angry Granpa as a result, despite the game being all pro community and "standing for each other" and stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I get where this system comes from and why it is structured the way it is. I don't say it should be dropped, I say its about time for it to be improved.

[Ryika]

Originally posted by Wakazu:

Why don't just use money for the end-of-year-evaluation?

Because then the evaluation would have only been about maximizing your efficiency on the farm (or whatever method you're using to generate money. As it stands, a perfect score requires you to do a bit of almost everything that was part of the initial release of the game.

Originally posted by Wakazu:

And by the way - no, not every activity in SV provides you money, many are straight up moneysinks (building friendships with townsfolk, for example, is a huge money sinkhole, as even if you don't go for their favorite gifts, you still need to meet them, read - waste your limited daytime on finding them in town). So if I try to play social butterfly, I'll get an angry Granpa as a result, despite the game being all pro community and "standing for each other" and stuff.

I didn't say everything makes you money, I said everything that does make money does so because you're generating value for the community. Obviously there are money-sinks in the game, many of which work towards other goals on grandpa's list.

The points system is certainly biased towards money if we look at the raw numbers, but then again, you will be earning money naturally by just playing the game, unless you're hyperfocused on a casual playthrough that ignores the money-generating aspect all-together. Only in those very specific cirumstances is there even a potential problem, since in all other playthroughs you will just gain most of the point from money-making naturally, because you will be generating that money.

I guess it could be changed to something like a 2-point system, one easy to get, the other the 1m that currently gives you the seventh point, and I don't really see a reason not to do ig, but again... that seems to be a change that's only relevant for a very specific type of playthrough. Without the "Capital pig" connotations that you're (unjustly, imho) trying to attach to the system, that seems to be an incredibly niche issue.

[Wakazu]

It's 7 points in money alone and only 1 and rarely 2 in everything else. What about it doesn't deserve a "capitalist pig" tag?
I mean, look at the workshop, farm maps that are big and efficient have more downloads than those that are aesthetic but small (and one of the most popular maps is straight up named "Capitalist's Dream"). Google "Stardew Valley" and a guide on maximising income will pop up in the first 3 links. What this tells you about?

[Ryika]

Originally posted by Wakazu:

It's 7 points in money alone and only 1 and rarely 2 in everything else. What about it doesn't deserve a "capitalist pig" tag?

See the argument I made in my first post.

Originally posted by Wakazu:

I mean, look at the workshop, farm maps that are big and efficient have more downloads than those that are aesthetic but small (and one of the most popular maps is straight up named "Capitalist's Dream"). Google "Stardew Valley" and a guide on maximising income will pop up in the first 3 links. What this tells you about?

That you seem to have a very weird, overly broad, and simplistic definition of what a "capitalist pig" is.

But I think I've said what I wanted to say, no need for this to devolve into an endless argument. Have a nice day.

[Wakazu]

My definition of "capitalist" is "someone who fixates on making money above anything else". And it seems google and oxford dictionary agree on this one.
And the current state of evaluation system strongly favorites money making above every other activity in the game. That was my point.
But okay, nice day to you too.

[Ryika]

Originally posted by Wakazu:

My definition of "capitalist" is "someone who fixates on making money above anything else". And it seems google and oxford dictionary agree on this one.
And the current state of evaluation system strongly favorites money making above every other activity in the game. That was my point.
But okay, nice day to you too.

I guess I'll join the long list of people who talk about having made their last post just to return for one more post shortly after, but this post peaked my interest. In your initial post you said specifically "capitalistic pig", not just "capitalist" - why the switch? The former obviously has a lot more negative connotations to it.

Especially since you then also compared him to the Joja Corporation, which do actually represent the exploitative excesses of capitalism whereas what you do on the farm - even if you run it efficiently, and with a focus on making money - does not. Of course you do not need to run the farm highly efficiently to hit the milestone, the 1m aren't that difficult to get at the of the day. So the two are not the same, and the comparison makes no sense in my opinion.

So do you believe that enjoying to accumulate money is inherently bad and worth the "capitalist pig" slur and comparison to the Joja Corp? Even if you earn your money like you do in the game, by working efficiently, not exploiting anyone (other than arguably the animals on your farm, but I think the game tries its best to portrait it as a synergistic relationship within the world of Stardew Valley), and providing good products that people are happy with?

Assuming you're consistent and not just backpaddling from the pig and Joja-comparison, then I think we just have a fundamental disagreement in our values there.

I'm interested in your response, but it's getting quite off topic, so I'll leave the last word to you. This time for real - pinky promise.

[EleventhStar]

you don't have to do all the objectives to reach full score with grandpa.

there are 21 available points but you only need 12.

so you can lose the 7 money points and the 1 point for marriage no problem if you don't want to play that way. (kids also aren't required to get the point, its 2 house upgrades, not 2 kids.)

[Wakazu]

"I guess I'll join the long list of people who talk about having made their last post just to return for one more post shortly after, but this post peaked my interest. In your initial post you said specifically "capitalistic pig", not just "capitalist" - why the switch? The former obviously has a lot more negative connotations to it."

Honestly, that one happened purely because I'm not american that has to speak english XD I know that this was the term people in states often throw around when talking about lows of capitalism, so I used it here. In my country pretty much everything about capitalism bears similar level of disdain by default, so "capitalist" and "capitalistic pig" would be pretty much interchangeable.
So no, I'm not backpaddling from it. I very much do use both terms as equaly insulting.

"Especially since you then also compared him to the Joja Corporation, which do actually represent the exploitative excesses of capitalism whereas what you do on the farm - even if you run it efficiently, and with a focus on making money - does not."

Who's "him" in this instance?
Also I saw too many mentions of players putting ageing casks all over Pelican town to maximize their input and deforesting every area to make more kegs. Not exactly "environmental-friendly" behavior, no?

"So do you believe that enjoying to accumulate money is inherently bad and worth the "capitalist pig" slur and comparison to the Joja Corp?"

Read again my definition: "someone who fixates on making money ABOVE ANYTHING ELSE"
So no, I have nothing against people who just want to make money. When they become so hellbent on making money that they turn into bulldozers ready to chug forwards leaving only ruin in their wake - that's when it becomes a problem.
And unfortunately the curent evaluation system heavily encourages exactly that.

"I'm interested in your response, but it's getting quite off topic, so I'll leave the last word to you. This time for real - pinky promise."

That one is sure off topic, but why not continue something you're interested in? It's not like there is a law somewhere that prohibits you from spending more than five posts on chatting with somebody. And I created this thread specificaly because I was interested in other people's opinions on this. And you provided.
A interesting discourse doesn't necessary concludes in one participant convincing the other. People exchanging view but not comming to agreement in the end is still an enjoyable experience (providing everyone remained civil, of course).

[Wakazu]

"there are 21 available points but you only need 12."

I know, but compare 7 point amassed in one cathegory that you can all get sitting on a farm to 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 marathon you'd have to run otherwise.

"kids also aren't required to get the point, its 2 house upgrades, not 2 kids"

Two house upgrades AND A SPOUSE. Who at this point will start nagging you about having kids every other day.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by Wakazu:

"there are 21 available points but you only need 12."

I know, but compare 7 point amassed in one cathegory that you can all get sitting on a farm to 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 marathon you'd have to run otherwise.

its 3 for community center, 2 for maxing out skills, 2 for friendship so it's not all that out of wack.

in theory you could break up the money(score) section into farm related subsections, like 1 point for having x animals or growing y crops or w/e, but i think just going with overall score just puts less restrictions on the player.

could there be an alternative score currency instead of money? probably but everybody understands money and even if you don't want to be capitalist yourself, you still have to play by the rules of society.

Two house upgrades AND A SPOUSE. Who at this point will start nagging you about having kids every other day.

yeah the marriage point does indeed require you to be married.

although having krobus as roommate also gives you credit for the point, which doesn't require marrying him.

oh and if you remove the crib form the bedroom you won't get nagged about kids.

[ChrillBill]

Grandpa has always been somewhat of a schmeggege in my opinion. Sure he owned the farm once upon a time. But given the state it is in when you arrive, he must have been a lousy farmer. And where is grandma? Let me tell you; her remains are to be found in different spots on the farm. There is a reason he hasn't left you a shovel

[Dimensional Traveler]

Wakazu, I don't think this game is for you.