shanes story.

[ShiZniTe]

think i recently figured out why shanes story is so much more developed than others, think the developer had some past alcohol issues and shane is a reflection of that. in contrast to the other character stories that are simplistic in design. i however do like the hidden backstory of Gus, he seems to love the culinary and alcohol world so much, that he innovates recipes, so much so he has the best cranberry sauce or something like that.
in closing, shanes story is far more developed than any others and i think it's because either the dev or someone he cared about went through it.

[Queen Droxxanna]

pure speculation

[ShiZniTe]

definitely lol. not like i have proof.

[ChrillBill]

I think you learn a great deal about Shane, but that could be said for other npcs as well. Alex for example, who has a very tragic past. Even Haley has a very interesting personal journey I think. So nah, I don't agree that Shanes is much more developed. His story touches a very sensitivie topic that happens to awaken the "saviour" in most of us, but he is in my opinion not very good hubby material. He feels more like a roomie, like Krobus.

[ShiZniTe]

you mention alex and haley as comparisons to shanes story? alex lost his parents and works out to cope. thats it pretty much. haley takes photos...
compared to shanes story, they are non-existent.

[ChrillBill]

Originally posted by ShiZniTe:

you mention alex and haley as comparisons to shanes story? alex lost his parents and works out to cope. thats it pretty much. haley takes photos...
compared to shanes story, they are non-existent.

The way you sum it up in Alex's case could be said for Shane as well; He drinks because he can't cope with life and his situation. But it is obviously not as simple as that. I think sometimes you also have to read between the lines in order to pick up on certain details. Alex didn't just lose his parent and started to work out in order to cope. His father was an abusive alcoholic. And he didn't die as far as I know, he apparently just left one day. Shortly after that Alex's mother got sick and died and he was forced to go live with his grandparents. That is a lot for a young person to go through. In the case of Haley I mentioned her personal journey, as in how much she actually changes when you get to know her and even marries her.

[LazyNarwhal]

His self insert character is Sebastian. Just not sure how deep it goes into sebastians life

[ChrillBill]

Originally posted by BootyliciousCthulhu:

His self insert character is Sebastian. Just not sure how deep it goes into sebastians life

I remember seeing an old video of the dev on youtube and it is eerie how similar he looked back then to Sebastians portrait o.o I always thought he was supposed to be Mr Qi though. Maybe he has invested parts of him in all of the npcs. Who knows

[Stardustfire]

you can say some of the bachelor/retes cater to a human abyss chlichee.
We have the Alcoholic
the school beauty that needs some real world reajustments
the girl with a broken familie background
the girl fleeing its stalking ex
the orphan living with his grands
the girl with not so girlish interestes that clash with her parents view

[no1schmo]

None of them are really well-developed, as it's not a focus of the game. But I wouldn't even say Shane is the best; I think this is a result of confusing emotional impact with character development. Yes, obviously Shane has the worst situation, his downfall the most tragic, his recovery the most uplifting, absolutely. But does that make it BETTER? A good case can be made that such dramatic roller-coasters are often the most mediocre stories, because they rely on that to suck in the audience. Even real stories are often over-dramatized when they, say, make a movie about them, for that exact reason--gotta have some kind of rivalry or massive character flaw that didn't exist in real life to build that tension. Other characters have more relatable stories, or more subtle development, and you could easily say that's "better." Sebastian, for example; he struggles with having a step-dad, with a half-sister who he feels is more loved than him, with people not understanding his work, with feelings towards a girl he can't express, with wanting to run away to the big city and yet not wanting to leave the only world he knows, with worries about how far he can really get in life. I'd argue this is far more complex, and relatable, and nuanced, than Shane and his one thing.

I mean, this is all just my opinion. Shane's story feels a bit more like a typical Lifetime Original Movie or something, to me.

[ShiZniTe]

sebs story is vastly underdeveloped compared to shanes, thats my whole point, shanes had the most impact because you saw his downfall, coping and uplifting all in one story, it was the closest to a completed story in the game. most every other npc is like, this is my hobby or interest. thats about it.

[ChrillBill]

Originally posted by no1schmo:

I think this is a result of confusing emotional impact with character development.

Exactly this. I too was very touched by Shanes story arc, but there are definitely other npcs who has better story arcs when I look at the actual writing and details. Like the ones you are mentioning about Sebastian. I mean it's all there but it's not "in your face" as Shanes depression and drinking. Shane's story arc IS very emotional but at the same time not very complex and doesn't open up for much speculation like in other cases ô.ô

[no1schmo]

Originally posted by ShiZniTe:

sebs story is vastly underdeveloped compared to shanes, thats my whole point, shanes had the most impact because you saw his downfall, coping and uplifting all in one story, it was the closest to a completed story in the game. most every other npc is like, this is my hobby or interest. thats about it.

I get that that's your point, but I'm of the opinion that Shane's story is NOT very developed--it's barebones and simplistic, rushing through the stages to reach the happy conclusion. We don't even find out WHY he is depressed. We don't even know why he's in the valley, as far as I can recall. He just exists as a depressed alcoholic, and rapidly hits rock bottom and then rockets through recovery at record speed. I actually work with someone who just went to a rehab clinic, in-patient care, for 7 weeks, and she now still goes to therapy 3 days a week, not just for the alcoholism but the traumatic experiences that led her there. Shane's story is very fairy-tale like in comparison. This isn't to say I believe Shane's story is "disrespectful" to real people who have gone through that, to be clear--just saying that's it more like the cliff notes version of an actual person's real experiences. No one else gets such a complete story because those take time, so instead, you just see a slice of their life, what's happening right now.

[ShiZniTe]

actually incorrect, shane was depressed because he didnt understand life outside of city living, his job at jojomart, his lack of child raising skill with his daughter, etc... iirc shane left the city because he was low on funds.
its the most developed story in the game, if you dont count the protags.

[ChrillBill]

Originally posted by ShiZniTe:

its the most developed story in the game, if you dont count the protags.

I respect your opinion, but I get the feeling you are having difficulties respecting and taking others into account. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again, without even trying to respond to some of the good arguments here. Like the ones I made for Alex. Clearly you haven't paid attention to his story arc at all, otherwise you wouldn't say he is just a guy who works out in order to cope with the fact that he lost his parents. This isn't just about what issues the different npcs are facing, it is also about the actual writing, their background, details and circumstances and how well they are developed throughout the game. Shanes is very simple in that regard, even rushed in my opinion. And I don't like the idea that he is supposed to be "fixed" because of marriage. That is extremely unrealistic. A very large part of the community looks at him as a charity case, which he really isn't, but has become BECAUSE of how his story arc was constructed. Been married to him several times in game and I usually befriend him at the very least so I have got nothing against him and his story, I just don't agree that it is the most developed.

You will just have to accept that not everyone will agree with. This is a discussion forum and I say that because it feels like you just want to be right.

[no1schmo]

Originally posted by ShiZniTe:

actually incorrect, shane was depressed because he didnt understand life outside of city living, his job at jojomart, his lack of child raising skill with his daughter, etc... iirc shane left the city because he was low on funds.
its the most developed story in the game, if you dont count the protags.

He doesn't have a daughter, and the rest of that isn't actually stated--we know he hates his job and he says he's bored, but that could just as easily be BECAUSE he's depressed. Sam isn't depressed and he works the same job. And it's not like Shane constantly pines for doing something he used to do in the city; he obviously liked going to gridball games, but that only comes up once. I don't recall him ever saying he moved to Pelican Town, to a dead-end job, for money. Respectfully, you are inferring things.

But let's ignore that then and look at the rest of the story; the scenes showing his depression and decline are fairly good, sure. His hitting rock bottom is surprisingly rough for the tone of this game. Individual scenes aren't bad. But what then? Does he get on medication? No. Does he cut out toxic friends? No. Does he have to avoid the saloon like the plague? No. Does he have to change his lifestyle majorly? No. Does he split from a significant other due to entirely different views on life now? No. Does he get a new life partner who helps him through it all? No, not unless YOU do it. Does he pick up new habits like exercising, nature walks, a hobby like building stuff? No. He plays arcade games and drinks soda, but he already drank soda and already owns a video game console. He doesn't even quit drinking entirely! He claims to be going to therapy with Harvey's buddy in Zuzu City, but he never leaves towns. Besides showing Jas a few things about raising chickens (and she never started hating him for his actions or anything previously, so there's no change in their relationship from her side) and painting a sign, he does literally nothing, he sacrifices nothing, to get better; he just decides "Hey, this sucks, I'm going to be happy from now on!" and is.

So yeah, no setup to his issues, and a cartoonish, overnight resolution to his issues, is the opposite of "developed" to me. He has very emotional scenes of decline, but that's really it. There's a difference between "emotionally impactful" and "well-developed." As far as I can see, Shane's story is among the worst developed we have because it's not developed, it just exists in the now and then, poof, all fixed for no reason.