The 'math' behind casks

[Its All Zen]

Alright folks so I sat down and started doing a little figuring and you probably won't believe these numbers but if you want to make money on aging things in your cellar it's looking like you'd better stock up on Goats. Goats make milk roughly 14 times a season, doing some easy math say you have 2 DB worth of goats=24. 24*14=336 cheese. Let's assume high happiness/affection and say you're getting at half large milk. This is currently the ONLY way to get a gold star artisan product for the casks yes? Which means to turn it into iridium cheese you need 7 days. So 168 cheese at 7 days to double the value (I'm taking the base value since all other artisan products require you to start from base value). and 168 cheese at the full 14 days means you get 352,800 in 14 days and half that after only 7. This means in a single season you are making over 700,000 just off casks of cheese. This also means you aren't using your kegs to turn ancient fruit into wine to turn into aged wine (taking a full 56 days for iridium). So you can continue your pale ale factories making that much more-for most people at least doubling their income once you add in goat cheese+pale ale. So let's say for a single season you're only making 700,000 off your kegs as well. That's 1.4m within a season off cheese and pale ale.

Let's break down ancient fruit. Assuming a greenhouse filled to the brim with Ancient Fruit that's 116 fruits assuming you are using the correct setup with sprinklers. So every 7 days you have 116 fruits which take 7 days to turn into wine making a constant cycle. This is standard level wine and it takes 14+14+28 to turn into iridium wine. So now we have 7+7+14+14+28. This is 70 days. 116x4620 for iridium wine = 535,920 after 70 days. Or 2.5 seasons. Meaning you averaged out 214,368 per season and you no longer have a pale ale or ancient fruit wine factory to add to your income. This means if you're making ancient fruit iridium wine you're doing it wrong.

Now ready to get mind blown? Let's assume 3 seasons with 2 DB full of pigs at 20 days of sunny weather... no you know what I'll give you a perfect season with 28 days of sunny weather. With 24 pigs assuming 850 for truffle oil and that you don't miss a single truffle all season and you have perfect weather the whole season you can make 571,200 off truffles. This is already less than the 700,000 you're making off the cheese and you're losing a season with the pigs. BUT WAIT. Remember when I said gold cheese only takes 7 days? This means that half of your 700,000 cheese factory is done in half the time... so that 168 cheese means that within the time it took you to make all of those iridium in 7 days you should have likely gotten even more cheese to put back in your casks. If you have just enough casks to last you the full season this isn't an issue... but this means that you can actually make fewer casks for the same amount of product lowering your material cost that much more!

If there is a flaw in my math I'm all for somebody pointing it out but it's looking like I'm going to be ignoring pigs and keg farms in favor of goats. In layman terms this simply means that the cash-per-day is actually higher still running kegs and selling wine/pale ale and using the casks for goat cheese instead of your booze factory.

[Velic Vorkhov]

As far as I'm aware Abalister, no wine can get quality without casking it. If you have a ton of gold floating around, planting a ton of starfruit during summer is pretty profitable.

[Abalister]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Velic Vorkhov:

As far as I'm aware Abalister, no wine can get quality without casking it. If you have a ton of gold floating around, planting a ton of starfruit during summer is pretty profitable.

Yeah. I've got a ton of starfruit seeds already. Problem is, with the long game running I have, I only farm in the greenhouse, and ancient fruits have been there forever.

With the new update, when I noticed that eggs, wool, and other products were granted the star system, I was hoping for wine to be the same. Unfortunately, like you said, it remains a no-star wine. That's why the casks process takes longer (7 days for each star level).

The fact that we can get gold star cheeses right off the machines, they only have to get to the iridium level in the casks, which takes a short time. I was hoping the same for wine.

And with all the farm being built and the routine strongly implemented for years, starting a new strategy with other crops on this farm is too much to ask.

I will instead start a new farm, and work my way up again and use another money-making strategy.

[Cyan Shadow]

I never normally do maths in this game but as soon as I get a cellar I will use the maths idea, as stated by platinumwyrm11.

[Velic Vorkhov]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Cyan Shadow:

I never normally do maths in this game but as soon as I get a cellar I will use the maths idea, as stated by platinumwyrm11.

Just keep in mind, for wines, it is a total of 56 days, not 70.

[Velic Vorkhov]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Abalister:

Yeah. I've got a ton of starfruit seeds already. Problem is, with the long game running I have, I only farm in the greenhouse, and ancient fruits have been there forever.

With the new update, when I noticed that eggs, wool, and other products were granted the star system, I was hoping for wine to be the same. Unfortunately, like you said, it remains a no-star wine. That's why the casks process takes longer (7 days for each star level).

The fact that we can get gold star cheeses right off the machines, they only have to get to the iridium level in the casks, which takes a short time. I was hoping the same for wine.

And with all the farm being built and the routine strongly implemented for years, starting a new strategy with other crops on this farm is too much to ask.

I will instead start a new farm, and work my way up again and use another money-making strategy.

It's a total of 56 days for wine. 14 for silver, 14 for gold, and 28 for iridium. It's definitely a long term investment over short term for wines. Cheese is 3 for silver, 4 for gold, and finally seven for iridium.

[SeemannTheAssamite]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Velic Vorkhov:

It's a total of 56 days for wine. 14 for silver, 14 for gold, and 28 for iridium. It's definitely a long term investment over short term for wines. Cheese is 3 for silver, 4 for gold, and finally seven for iridium.

And 7 for the fruit to turn into wine, so it's 63 days, isn't it? Same with cheese, another few hours, right? Or am I missing something?

[chudguy]

I went full Heisenberg & misread the 'math' in the title as 'meth'. Would have been a slightly different thread.

[Weizen1988]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Sunwave:

This:

Ursprungligen skrivet av "Dark":

Goat Cheese Normal: 375 gain over 14 days = 26.78 gold per day per cask
Goat Cheese Gold : 187 gain over 7 days = 26.71 gold per day per cask
Ancinet Fruit Wine : 2310 gain over 56 days = 41.25 gold per day per cask

Your argument that only starfruit and anceint fruit will win is totally true. Since they are both very late-game, and cheese is early game, you are right. Casking cheese is definitely one of the best ways to earn money early game. I think you can start this near the end of summer year 1, if you're fast, whereas you probably can't do the greenhouse/desert stuff until halfway year 2 (due to several difficult community bundle requirements)

Question. What do you consider early game? Fully upgraded house (needed to get any casks) is a lot of money. How exactly are you managing that by summer of year one?

[di eshor ribly]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Weizen1988:

Question. What do you consider early game? Fully upgraded house (needed to get any casks) is a lot of money. How exactly are you managing that by summer of year one?

By prioritizing purchases, limiting expenses, and making sure you earn money. I just started a new game on the fishing farm, I'm on Summer 4, year 1, with 31k money *edit: I own the kitchen and upstairs house upgrades* and earning 1000-8000 per day off fishing/farming. No coop, no barn, I've only upgraded my axe to copper to bust some stumps that were blocking a few bridges, and not worrying about the community center until Winter or year 2.

The fully upgraded house is only $160,000 (10k for kitchen, 50k for upstairs rooms, 100k for the cellar). Each tool is $42,000 to fully upgrade (2k, 5k, 10k, 25k) so even with the new cellar addition it's still cheaper than upgrading all of your tools by $8,000.

[Weizen1988]

Ursprungligen skrivet av di eshor ribly:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Weizen1988:

Question. What do you consider early game? Fully upgraded house (needed to get any casks) is a lot of money. How exactly are you managing that by summer of year one?

By prioritizing purchases, limiting expenses, and making sure you earn money. I just started a new game on the fishing farm, I'm on Summer 4, year 1, with 31k money *edit: I own the kitchen and upstairs house upgrades* and earning 1000-8000 per day off fishing/farming. No coop, no barn, I've only upgraded my axe to copper to bust some stumps that were blocking a few bridges, and not worrying about the community center until Winter or year 2.

The fully upgraded house is only $160,000 (10k for kitchen, 50k for upstairs rooms, 100k for the cellar). Each tool is $42,000 to fully upgrade (2k, 5k, 10k, 25k) so even with the new cellar addition it's still cheaper than upgrading all of your tools by $8,000.

Fair enough. Always been a lot more casual for the most part, dont usually try to push it like that. Not bad. Thank you for your time.

[Velic Vorkhov]

Ursprungligen skrivet av SeemannTheAssamite:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Velic Vorkhov:

It's a total of 56 days for wine. 14 for silver, 14 for gold, and 28 for iridium. It's definitely a long term investment over short term for wines. Cheese is 3 for silver, 4 for gold, and finally seven for iridium.

And 7 for the fruit to turn into wine, so it's 63 days, isn't it? Same with cheese, another few hours, right? Or am I missing something?

I was assuming just casking time, which is what all of my numbers are calculated off of.

[Its All Zen]

Pure casking time is 56 days however my original if you read states that starting from the regrowth time to keg time to cask time. Assuming you aren't saving previous batches and are selling off overflow. Of course if you're saving batches to stick back in the cask once they're done then you are correct it's 56 days of pure cask time. I should have elaborated on that. And no I didn't mean to say that you 'lose' the ability to factory wine/ale only that you lose the full profit whereas with goat cheese you would have the full profit of your keg factory plus the cheese factory. In knowing that 100ish is the max for casks though I would still say that using multiple goat barns with gold quality cheese is better overall. However, someone explain this:

"Goat Cheese Normal: 375 gain over 14 days = 26.78 gold per day per cask
Goat Cheese Gold : 187 gain over 7 days = 26.71 gold per day per cask"

How is it that you're gaining less for the gold cheese since it's done in half the time? I mean if selling the gold cheese outright and only using the cask on normal is an overall better profit then that's fine but it seems to me that math is flawed... of course I did just wake up. Either way it's good to see people have taken this and run with it. It's definitely an interesting concept on the most effective way to make use of the casks. With the new starter farms and the cask system things have gotten pretty interesting planning wise.

[SeemannTheAssamite]

To platinum:
You only lose 1/8th of the kegging profit from the fruit with no extra work.
You can alleviate that by kegging hops for the one week of the cycle you put your fruit into the casks, which makes it a negligible loss.
Or you can also the fruit outside for the 3 growable seasons (or 1 for starfruit, so there'd have to be more space for it) to create a surplus, so you can do it without any loss, really.

There's also an interesting idea (found it somewhere, not mine, credit to the person who came up with it) of filling your cellar with casks completely and just dismantling/replacing them after the cycle. I think that makes the max amount of something along 200 casks. Didn't really count, but it's an option. xP


Still, casks are more of a fluff than a real income boost, tbh, since they're hard capped in number, so if we're talking the overall earnings the fruit route would surpass the cheese one by the very fact that you can plant such an amount of it that even with maximum amount of barns and animals your farm could sustain (hay and in game time* wise) you could just simply plant another batch of fruit for 3 seasons and build another set of kegs to produce more, and with sprinklers for automation.
This is an end game scenario though, since it assumes you have a lot of resources.

*The amount of hay you can grow on the farm without having to buy it and the amount of time it takes to caress (:P) animals and milk them.

In early game I find that the resources spent on building barns and silos are better put elsewhere, like buying more seeds. With those 43k,1350 wood and 650 stone (or ~70k with buying the mats) for one full barn plus 48k for the goats, you can get the bus unlocked (~43k with the trip cost :P) and buy around 120 starfruit seeds. Plus you have (or don't have to gather) the mats or 27k more money.The only downside would be watering the plants or making enough sprinklers.

[Its All Zen]

You make a good point as far as the casks having a limited use due to finite supply... also how annoying it is to care for a large amount of animals. I actually ran into this problem one time when I was determined to make a 'ranch' style farm. I had 5 coops of void chickens and 3 barns of pigs. Everything was fine until the next winter. I spent so much on hay to fill my silos/extra chest that I realized that growing enough grass to feed a large amount of animals would be virtually impossible if you were also farming regularly. You'd pretty much have to dedicate your entire time in game to growing grass/petting animals/chasing truffles. While a large amount of truffles can be great cash with the right perks/equipment it's alot more work and overall less money than running the winery. It's fun at first until you realize that if you do anything but wait on the pigs to find truffles they won't do it. I went to the mines a few times and realized not a single truffle was found after I left the farm map. Since the kegs/casks work off a 'timer' they're easily the better option to truffles as you can actually go out and do other things while they're working. It's very hands off besides once every 7 days.

[Pocket Predictor]

have anyone considered just leaving the wine to silver star? and not iridium, i rather have 1.25 every 14 days than 2 every 56 days, so let me know if im doing it wrong but it really is a pain in the ass waiting 2 seasons for a single batch of wine