Yes Another Stealth Discussion

[GoobleMoWizard]

How can any of y'all stealth in this game? My experience with stealth, has been a utter disaster for the whole thing. The beginning you're told that crouch walking keeps you from being heard, and staying in the dark. I'm at Volga right now, and like I said, Stealth isn't an option. Things I've experienced while, "Trying to Stealth." Climbing up ladders, having a silencer on my revolver, hiding behind walls or under things, crouch walking, shooting someone from a distance with no one around them with my silenced revolver, barely looking around corners, music for being seen playing when not visible, everything in this game causes me to be detected! Why is the AI such a Bish? The AI has the eye of a Hawk. For me anyways, it's legit, 100% impossible to clear out a base without raising any attention to yourself. For people who have said, "I can stealth no problem", I'm happy for you, but with the question of HOW?!?!?!? I hate stealth with 100% honesty. You don't have to stealth, I get that, but when you want to, the game is not in favor of your decision. I'm legit about ready to just go into the game with no F's givin, and take out my Ak and light the place up until one of them surrenders. If one surrenders, I don't care anymore, lol! I just want the good ending, but Frick stealth, lol! I'm not the Developer of any game, but I can't understand a developed AI that registers you from a spot they CANNOT see you in!

[Welsenfürst]

The truth is... the artificial intelligence in metro isn't that good. Especially to locate the player when he 's stealthing. It is possible to clear a base without being detected. Try it in the night and avoid the moonshine. The whole metro series are a little bit tricky and it depends on the difficulty level.
And when you are hate stealth.. why do you play this game?

if you find this difficult, try Dishonored 2 one hardest difficulty while stealthing through the levels

[morsdood]

Originally posted by Zinnoberstange:

if you find this difficult, try Dishonored 2 one hardest difficulty while stealthing through the levels

not at all the same type of difficulty though, Exodus's stealth can be tough because of the artificial difficulty presented by the AIs relatively crap design, Dishonored on the other hand is a carefully crafted experience based foremost around Stealth, also gives you much more tools and options than just a silencer and an empty can

i frequently replay many different Stealth games because its my favorite genre and i can safely say all of them on their hardest difficulty are a better experience than whatever Exodus tries to do

[RyanBurnsRed]

So the thing about silencers and guns in this game is that they don't completely mask the sound, like irl. Enemies near you will still hear the shot, so you'll need to use something like the Tikhar or Helsing for completely silent kills, so long as you don't miss your first shot. That's the only thing I got to help you.

Playing on Ranger Hardcore and stealth is really hit and miss honestly. Enemies will see me in pitch black darkness with no visual aid to them or see a body in similar conditions. They'll also somehow hear me on the other side of a wall or several feet below/above them, and unfortunately to get the good ending stealth is not optional

[Koot'n]

Originally posted by RyanBurnsRed:

So the thing about silencers and guns in this game is that they don't completely mask the sound, like irl.

thats something new to me.

https://youtu.be/_eDoeWr_9BQ?t=148
(skip to 2:28)

this will be something new to you.

Sounds like someone is hitting a plastic table with a stick(and that was the "quietest" one).


Btw - artjom has a big bagpack, clothes for winter, a mask and guns he carry around. Think about the first level - with that plattform. The ground is dirty. Filled with screws and all other kind of trash. How (tf) are you supposed to stealth with 98lbs of baggage, winterclothes, a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gasmask ect ect. This is no splintercell game.... Sometimes it works - sometimes not. But with that keeping in mind i can live and play with that

[RyanBurnsRed]

There is a hint on the loading screen that also says silencers on guns don't make the weapon silent, or something to that effect. If I come across it again I'll screen shot it.

Thanks for the video but there was nothing in there that was new to me.
I actually don't know if your equipment affects sound in this game like it did in 2033 (original, NOT redux). I would guess and say that it doesn't, and that the AI is just hot garbage

[Waiting to Visit Japan (^.-)]

Originally posted by Koot'n:

Btw - artjom has a big bagpack, clothes for winter, a mask and guns he carry around. Think about the first level - with that plattform. The ground is dirty. Filled with screws and all other kind of trash. How (tf) are you supposed to stealth with 98lbs of baggage, winterclothes, a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gasmask ect ect. This is no splintercell game.... Sometimes it works - sometimes not. But with that keeping in mind i can live and play with that

Yep. This.

People want to play Ninja in a game where they are carrying a department store.
THEN they blame the AI for being "unfair". (^.^)

[JolyJew СлаваУкраине]

Enemy ai can be absurd but most of it csn be avoided if you use stealth in night time.
trying to stealth during day time is usually a terrible idea

[GoobleMoWizard]

Originally posted by The Last Alpha:

Originally posted by Koot'n:

Btw - artjom has a big bagpack, clothes for winter, a mask and guns he carry around. Think about the first level - with that plattform. The ground is dirty. Filled with screws and all other kind of trash. How (tf) are you supposed to stealth with 98lbs of baggage, winterclothes, a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gasmask ect ect. This is no splintercell game.... Sometimes it works - sometimes not. But with that keeping in mind i can live and play with that

Yep. This.

People want to play Ninja in a game where they are carrying a department store.
THEN they blame the AI for being "unfair". (^.^)

I understand this completely, but being too realistic can be very annoying.

[GoobleMoWizard]

Originally posted by Jolly Jew:

Enemy ai can be absurd but most of it csn be avoided if you use stealth in night time.
trying to stealth during day time is usually a terrible idea

Then I shall try at night time to see if there is a difference.

[chakrapiercer]

I've come to think that getting detected or not is partly scripted. Even in RH difficulty I was able to knock out the two bandits talking to a prisoner in a cage at night (Volga, drill tower near the base) when the second one would have noticed and shot me IRL - I think it's scripted that he does not detect you. The same goes for the two bandits smoking a shisha in the back area of the slave ship. OTOH, in the passage leading up to the lighthouse, or the one leading up to the oil transporter, when I knock out one or more enemies in dark spots, I will get detected later, maybe because other guards notice the absence of these guards in their walking tours. On the path to the lighthouse, knocking out the platoon leader also spawns bandits coming down from the lighthouse area, no matter how sneaky I was. As a result, I'm just ghosting these passages.

[Waiting to Visit Japan (^.-)]

Originally posted by GoobleMoWizard:

Originally posted by The Last Alpha:

Yep. This.

People want to play Ninja in a game where they are carrying a department store.
THEN they blame the AI for being "unfair". (^.^)

I understand this completely, but being too realistic can be very annoying.

We're on the same page. It's a game. When it stops being fun... that's a problem. (^.-)

BUT... everyone has their own level of "real enough". As an owner of actual firearms and suppressors I get a chuckle out of how fit Arytom is carrying all that gear. (^.^) As Artyom I climb to the top of a tower as if I'm in a t-shirt and running shorts. If only...

[Waiting to Visit Japan (^.-)]

Originally posted by chakrapiercer:

I've come to think that getting detected or not is partly scripted.

Could be correct. It's "story driven" after all. Some things MUST happen.

[GoobleMoWizard]

Originally posted by The Last Alpha:

Originally posted by GoobleMoWizard:

I understand this completely, but being too realistic can be very annoying.

We're on the same page. It's a game. When it stops being fun... that's a problem. (^.-)

BUT... everyone has their own level of "real enough". As an owner of actual firearms and suppressors I get a chuckle out of how fit Arytom is carrying all that gear. (^.^) As Artyom I climb to the top of a tower as if I'm in a t-shirt and running shorts. If only...

Most definitely. When it becomes unfun and straight up, you wanna destroy your PC, then we need to step back.

[Jackkel Dragon]

I've very rarely had problems with stealth in the Metro games, but there are some things to keep in mind:

- Suppressed weapons are quiet, not silent. Even the Tikhar and Helsing make noise when the projectile hits something. In my experience, the AI will aimbot toward your hiding spot if you're too close when they hear something that spooks them. Otherwise, they will jump and examine the location where the sound came from.

- Never consider anything done in daylight to be stealth. Areas where you are meant to sneak around even during the day will often have lots of shade. If you want to stealth anything else, wait for nighttime. Always keep an eye on the watch light: if it's bright, enemies that look your way WILL see you, even under weird circumstances. If it's dark, enemies have to stare directly at you for 2-4 seconds to spot you (indicated by a light at the edge of the screen.) As others have pointed out, moonlight can also light you up.

- Once an enemy enters combat, sees a body, or raises an alarm, they will almost always remain in the "alerted" state, even if you leave and come back. This makes them hear sounds better and spot you faster, even in darkness.

- This one is more of a bug: sometimes, enemies that are in an animation will not give the takedown prompt unless looked at from a specific direction.

- Unless something requires you to take out every enemy, you're usually expected to skip enemies that are too difficult to reach safely. (Stealth in the original game meant avoiding enemies entirely, until the remake added takedowns.)

- Every main story objective that can be stealthed usually has an optimal path with crazy amounts of cover, shade, and/or decoys to work with. One path even allows skipping a whole room of enemies. Like the forced stealth in the first level, a lot of these pathways make stealth super easy, and are probably the intended path for that playstyle.

- Enemies can't be moved, so be careful where you knock out or kill enemies. Any spotted enemy usually puts the whole location on alert. (However, KOed enemies don't ever get back up.)

- Stealth on mutants is very different than with human enemies. While you can avoid some mutant fights via stealth, there are also a lot of required fights against mutants. Have a backup weapon for these.

With all of those in mind, I usually play the Metro games will an emphasis on stealth, only fighting when I need to or can't be bothered to reload. When I'm taking stealth seriously and don't know the optimal pathways yet, most of the game is spent with me quicksaving in each dark corner I find and doing the same 20 seconds over and over until I do it safely. It's more like a puzzle game in that sense, where it's about trying to figure out the intended openings in patrols.

If stealth continues to be a problem even with the information above, I'd recommend lowering the difficulty by one or more levels before trying to Rambo the game. Even when in combat, cover and sneaking around are a big part of the game. One of the hardest parts of the game for me on Normal and Hardcore is a required fight against an armored enemy with little cover and no way to hide and sneak up on him. Some weapons can kill the player in less than a second on the higher difficulties, which is a lot more annoying to me than reloading stealth attempts a few times.

[GoobleMoWizard]

Originally posted by Jackkel Dragon:

I've very rarely had problems with stealth in the Metro games, but there are some things to keep in mind:

- Suppressed weapons are quiet, not silent. Even the Tikhar and Helsing make noise when the projectile hits something. In my experience, the AI will aimbot toward your hiding spot if you're too close when they hear something that spooks them. Otherwise, they will jump and examine the location where the sound came from.

- Never consider anything done in daylight to be stealth. Areas where you are meant to sneak around even during the day will often have lots of shade. If you want to stealth anything else, wait for nighttime. Always keep an eye on the watch light: if it's bright, enemies that look your way WILL see you, even under weird circumstances. If it's dark, enemies have to stare directly at you for 2-4 seconds to spot you (indicated by a light at the edge of the screen.) As others have pointed out, moonlight can also light you up.

- Once an enemy enters combat, sees a body, or raises an alarm, they will almost always remain in the "alerted" state, even if you leave and come back. This makes them hear sounds better and spot you faster, even in darkness.

- This one is more of a bug: sometimes, enemies that are in an animation will not give the takedown prompt unless looked at from a specific direction.

- Unless something requires you to take out every enemy, you're usually expected to skip enemies that are too difficult to reach safely. (Stealth in the original game meant avoiding enemies entirely, until the remake added takedowns.)

- Every main story objective that can be stealthed usually has an optimal path with crazy amounts of cover, shade, and/or decoys to work with. One path even allows skipping a whole room of enemies. Like the forced stealth in the first level, a lot of these pathways make stealth super easy, and are probably the intended path for that playstyle.

- Enemies can't be moved, so be careful where you knock out or kill enemies. Any spotted enemy usually puts the whole location on alert. (However, KOed enemies don't ever get back up.)

- Stealth on mutants is very different than with human enemies. While you can avoid some mutant fights via stealth, there are also a lot of required fights against mutants. Have a backup weapon for these.

With all of those in mind, I usually play the Metro games will an emphasis on stealth, only fighting when I need to or can't be bothered to reload. When I'm taking stealth seriously and don't know the optimal pathways yet, most of the game is spent with me quicksaving in each dark corner I find and doing the same 20 seconds over and over until I do it safely. It's more like a puzzle game in that sense, where it's about trying to figure out the intended openings in patrols.

If stealth continues to be a problem even with the information above, I'd recommend lowering the difficulty by one or more levels before trying to Rambo the game. Even when in combat, cover and sneaking around are a big part of the game. One of the hardest parts of the game for me on Normal and Hardcore is a required fight against an armored enemy with little cover and no way to hide and sneak up on him. Some weapons can kill the player in less than a second on the higher difficulties, which is a lot more annoying to me than reloading stealth attempts a few times.

I always play on Normal because that's what I'm used to. Easy is just too easy, not really fun cause you can just play as carelessly as you want and not have to worry, unless you just right out suck at games. But, I've said before loads of times, I really suck at stealth, cause I either am confused as to why I am seen, or I don't know the appropriate approach.