Hardcore - Broken AI aimbot

[stphnl329]

I've seen a lot of people defending how AIs can quickly pick up their weapons and snipe you...but this is just too much. Being on top of the oil rig in the Caspian where the sniper used to be, and getting beamed by an AI from the ground.

https://youtu.be/6wjFFrWU08k

[cuss]

What did you expect? You stayed there in plain sight and let them shoot you,.. repeatedly.. repeatedly.. repeatedly...........
You seem to have forgotten 2 things; cover & MEDKITS!!!

[stphnl329]

Originally posted by cuss:

What did you expect? You stayed there in plain sight and let them shoot you,.. repeatedly.. repeatedly.. repeatedly...........
You seem to have forgotten 2 things; cover & MEDKITS!!!

You seemed to have missed the point...try equipping the AK and spraying at those enemies at that distance. You won't hit anything. The point of this poist is the broken AI's 100% spray accuracy from a ridiculous distance. It's easy enough to kill those enemies, you just barely keep the scope above the ground so that the enemies target the floor beneath you.

It still completely breaks immersion, and also why the 6x scope is more or less useless in the game. The AIs don't care if you're half a mile away, they'll full auto you with full accuracy.

[stphnl329]

For reference, here's the distance that they're shooting at.
https://ibb.co/hBm4Rfn

And here's what spraying with the bulldog looks like at that range.
https://youtu.be/hvefQQR53ts

[cuss]

No I didn't miss the point, I watched your video. Your sniping position is here:
https://i.imgur.com/StSgJh2.jpg
The night sky is bright and you are side / backlit by the Baron's lights. From that angle your head and torso are visible.
While you dealt with two guys at the van (first guy one shot & second guy two shot) the other four guys ran to cover here:
https://i.imgur.com/jBZrvSZ.jpg
The delay with the second van guy lets one guy in cover get a sight on you and fired a controlled 6 or 8 round burst hitting you with one or two rounds. This guy here:
https://i.imgur.com/LuuTVSv.jpg
After getting hit you had him in your sights but hesitated and by that time he had your number and fired again. You died.
Those guys are about 100 metres away and the AK, an assault rifle, can comfortably handle that, and in the hands of an experienced shooter probably twice that.
That measurement is based on your screenshot and some quick numbers. The vehicle they hide behind looks like a pickup or small truck. The Chevrolet Silverado is 5.6 metres in length but if you've walked past that vehicle you know it's not 18 feet long so lets go with the Nissan Navara at 4.9 metres (16 feet). That's still too long because I'm pretty sure that vehicle is only about 4 metres long (13 feet) but lets go with 5 metres for arguments sake. Excuse my sloppy paintshop measurements, look here:
https://i.imgur.com/iVmkyq5.jpg
From the front of the vehicle to the base of the crane is roughly 16 lengths or 80 metres. If your sniping position is 50 metres vertically which it roughly is then the slope length (diagonal distance) is about 95 metres.
It's not AI mate, you miscalculated.
Wanna know what I think happened? I think one of the bandits bullets ricocheted from the underside of that railing you were firing over and it slammed into your groin and severed your femoral artery. You were probably already dead but didn't know it yet when the second rounds hit. Feel better now?

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

It's true the AI don't play by the same rules in terms of weapon recoil. I wouldn't call it unfair, if you were fighting actual 'human' level enemies it would be much worse.

[Flybye]

If you have ever played old school twitch games where real people know how to aim, this is nothing.

[stphnl329]

Originally posted by cuss:

No I didn't miss the point, I watched your video. Your sniping position is here:
https://i.imgur.com/StSgJh2.jpg
The night sky is bright and you are side / backlit by the Baron's lights. From that angle your head and torso are visible.
While you dealt with two guys at the van (first guy one shot & second guy two shot) the other four guys ran to cover here:
https://i.imgur.com/jBZrvSZ.jpg
The delay with the second van guy lets one guy in cover get a sight on you and fired a controlled 6 or 8 round burst hitting you with one or two rounds. This guy here:
https://i.imgur.com/LuuTVSv.jpg
After getting hit you had him in your sights but hesitated and by that time he had your number and fired again. You died.
Those guys are about 100 metres away and the AK, an assault rifle, can comfortably handle that, and in the hands of an experienced shooter probably twice that.
That measurement is based on your screenshot and some quick numbers. The vehicle they hide behind looks like a pickup or small truck. The Chevrolet Silverado is 5.6 metres in length but if you've walked past that vehicle you know it's not 18 feet long so lets go with the Nissan Navara at 4.9 metres (16 feet). That's still too long because I'm pretty sure that vehicle is only about 4 metres long (13 feet) but lets go with 5 metres for arguments sake. Excuse my sloppy paintshop measurements, look here:
https://i.imgur.com/iVmkyq5.jpg
From the front of the vehicle to the base of the crane is roughly 16 lengths or 80 metres. If your sniping position is 50 metres vertically which it roughly is then the slope length (diagonal distance) is about 95 metres.
It's not AI mate, you miscalculated.
Wanna know what I think happened? I think one of the bandits bullets ricocheted from the underside of that railing you were firing over and it slammed into your groin and severed your femoral artery. You were probably already dead but didn't know it yet when the second rounds hit. Feel better now?

1) I'm not being lit. As you can see about 20 seconds into the original video, Artyom's watch light is off. Forget whatever back lighting etc., the game engine doesn't care.

2) Doesn't matter how good of a shooter you are, your bullets won't follow the exact same path. controlled burst or not. The AIs are putting 10 consecutive rounds on the exact same spot - that seem realistic to you? You wouldn't even be able to do that at point blank range irl.

3) The game engine doesn't calculate ricochets so there's no chance of that happening. I'm not even complaining about difficulty, I tend to use stealth to get through most encounters anyways, so I rarely get shot at.

4) Realism, and making everything match the real world, isn't the problem here. It's a game, so not everything needs to line up perfectly. However, the AIs should deal with at least the same amount of recoil that Artyom has to in-game...you know, seeing as he is a "special forces highly trained shooting everything he sees dead-eye." You'd think that with his training, sophisticated gear, and weapon maintenance, that his accuracy would be better than that of the AIs.

PS: Speaking about inconsistencies in the Metro world, what about that "clearly not an amateur sniper" that misses you repeatedly while you're advancing on the rig? THAT is the big immersion breaker which really annoys me. Whatever "physics" the game implements should be consistent - which was my complaint in the first place.

[cuss]

Yeah... the post was mainly in jest, especially the ricochet, because you're pissing & moaning abut the only place in the game where the enemy has any real advantage. And that's only because the AI doesn't seem to apply the same recoil rules to NPC's. Maybe that's what makes the game good in that enemies don't miss or make mistakes. Since 'it's a game' as you say, and games are for fun and challenge, you could use your head to resolve the problem of difficult combat and just zipline out of there but you choose to stay and complain instead. Tedious.

[stphnl329]

Originally posted by cuss:

Yeah... the post was mainly in jest, especially the ricochet, because you're pissing & moaning abut the only place in the game where the enemy has any real advantage. And that's only because the AI doesn't seem to apply the same recoil rules to NPC's. Maybe that's what makes the game good in that enemies don't miss or make mistakes. Since 'it's a game' as you say, and games are for fun and challenge, you could use your head to resolve the problem of difficult combat and just zipline out of there but you choose to stay and complain instead. Tedious.

For a post written "mainly in jest" you seem to have spent an awful lot of time and effort into writing your post...

As I already stated earlier, it isn't even "difficult combat." You can see at the end of the second video where I just stare at the enemies with the binocs, it's pretty easy to just poke your gun over the floor and have all the enemies miss while you pick them off. I already long passed that chapter, I did a speed run of the Caspian to get to the oil rig sniper in like 6 minutes to get that second recording.

I still don't see why the AIs having no recoil is a good thing. I'm not saying they need to shoot like stormtroopers. And having that bit of dispersion wouldn't even affect most of the gameplay, they'd still hit you 90%+ of the time. But for a game that spent so much time, money and effort into world building and immersion, this doesn't seem like too much to ask for does it?

Annnd since "it's a game,' is criticism/feedback in a discussion forum illegal? Is there a problem with "staying and complaining" as you so put it?

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

Originally posted by stphnl329:

Originally posted by cuss:

Yeah... the post was mainly in jest, especially the ricochet, because you're pissing & moaning abut the only place in the game where the enemy has any real advantage. And that's only because the AI doesn't seem to apply the same recoil rules to NPC's. Maybe that's what makes the game good in that enemies don't miss or make mistakes. Since 'it's a game' as you say, and games are for fun and challenge, you could use your head to resolve the problem of difficult combat and just zipline out of there but you choose to stay and complain instead. Tedious.

For a post written "mainly in jest" you seem to have spent an awful lot of time and effort into writing your post...

As I already stated earlier, it isn't even "difficult combat." You can see at the end of the second video where I just stare at the enemies with the binocs, it's pretty easy to just poke your gun over the floor and have all the enemies miss while you pick them off. I already long passed that chapter, I did a speed run of the Caspian to get to the oil rig sniper in like 6 minutes to get that second recording.

I still don't see why the AIs having no recoil is a good thing. I'm not saying they need to shoot like stormtroopers. And having that bit of dispersion wouldn't even affect most of the gameplay, they'd still hit you 90%+ of the time. But for a game that spent so much time, money and effort into world building and immersion, this doesn't seem like too much to ask for does it?

Annnd since "it's a game,' is criticism/feedback in a discussion forum illegal? Is there a problem with "staying and complaining" as you so put it?

I agree with you, the lack of recoil from the AI shots is frustrating and not great. But I also think it's not that important.