Any Benefit to Not using Demon Power?

[SureOz]

Any secret ending or anything?

[Aboutsaturn9151]

I got through without it on sovereign mode and got absolutely nothing, I think they definitely intend for you to use it a few times in the playthrough, especially since characters will act like you have this clairvoyance and foresight even though you never actually went back in time.

[Tozobi]

There is a very clear reference by a late joiner that you can get a very different outcome if you have no "pact" with the demon, possibly related to one of your knights Epicrates says this explicitly and the knight he refers to is probably Angelica as he speaks to her about something of the sort in one of their events, and mentions the golden key which the Emperor and Arlin also mention various times

The Kingslayer also mentions the pact, and you get the "lie" tag if you say you have no such thing but have used it.
The game is absolutely designed to be beatable without the demon power, particularly if you have finished it once and know the types of "emergency" problems" that can occur that are the biggest hurdles, though I don't know if you would be able to avoid certain events like that e.g a murder in one of the first days of Act 2

I am inclined to believe there is a different ending, but until someone does all this, only the devs could tell us. I don't think it would be tied to Sovereign mode though.

Note: The studio's first game also had two different hard to get endings which you would only likely get if you had finished the game once, or were VERY careful with ancestral influence fdr one, and had followed every single step two characters suggested at the very beginning of the game for the other one.

[demideerling]

I kinda wish the ending was different or had something special for resisting using the power so you can essentially choose to go back to the last day (thats where it naturally saves on your save slot) to go back and redo everything. Or just accept it. I thought surely accepting my fate would do something but it just sent me back to the main menu.

HOWEVER I did enjoy playing without rewinding because I felt like it made my choices more like "aughhh ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ my knights! my decision making!"

[mitchelltf]

What's the COST to using the Demon Power?

[Jack]

Originally posted by mitchelltf:

What's the COST to using the Demon Power?

sod all from what i've seen so far

[Tozobi]

OK, can now confirm that at the ending you get the option to return to the very beginning if you like, then you get a run from day 1 with all the archetypes, knowledge etc., but with 0 time travel count, and are told by a specific NPC that you can change things so you can get certain results which were unavailable due to having used the demon. This means you can get a run where you don't use it and can then do whatever it is you need to do but still have access to all dialogue/traits etc.

[Strategos]

I'm still on my first playthrough. I'm doing it without using the demon powers, though I'm not sure that's relevant for what follows. I think I'm starting to understand stuff, which I'll be testing on my next playthrough, and in a nutshell, if I'm right : using the demon locks you out of the perfect ending, which you can only get in new game + anyway, during a second playthrough. Details in the spoiler below.

According to the serpent knight Epicrates, who seems to be aware of the time loop mechanic and the demon, to get the best ending I need to get the Golden Key. He listed several requirements:

• Not using the demon in the concerned timeline.
  
• Getting ALL the allied lands.
  
• Which means uniting Groveshire and Gavault in the beginning of the game with the help of the "lost child" as he says. So I assume you can only do that by learning in a previous playthrough, as I did, that the knight Gideon is the lost hidden son of both families, hence my assumption of it being a New Game + thing, where you can have that knowledge without demon rewinding.
  
• Which also probably means not recruiting Victoria, since from what I understand you can only do so by locking yourself out of Enberg (devs have confimed choices on that matter are currently bugged, I tried lying to her but ended up recruiting her anyway, and the game acts as if I went through with murdering the count of Enberg as she asked, hope that'll be fixed for my next playthrough).
  
• Which in turn probably means duelling her, so you'll need a knight with top strengh and agility, and good... what was it? Intuition? Should have jotted that down too. Maybe focusing on raising those stats on Angelica from the start would work since she starts with high agility and her pure heart means the sword of the lake gives you an added +3 strengh?

And that's all I got for now. But yeah, pretty sure there is an ideal playthrough with an ideal ending you can only get in new game +, by not using the demon and playing very deliberatly.

[Tozobi]

Originally posted by Strategos:

I'm still on my first playthrough. I'm doing it without using the demon powers, though I'm not sure that's relevant for what follows. I think I'm starting to understand stuff, which I'll be testing on my next playthrough, and in a nutshell, if I'm right : using the demon locks you out of the perfect ending, which you can only get in new game + anyway, during a second playthrough. Details in the spoiler below.

According to the serpent knight Epicrates, who seems to be aware of the time loop mechanic and the demon, to get the best ending I need to get the Golden Key. He listed several requirements:

• Not using the demon in the concerned timeline.
  
• Getting ALL the allied lands.
  
• Which means uniting Groveshire and Gavault in the beginning of the game with the help of the "lost child" as he says. So I assume you can only do that by learning in a previous playthrough, as I did, that the knight Gideon is the lost hidden son of both families, hence my assumption of it being a New Game + thing, where you can have that knowledge without demon rewinding.
  
• Which also probably means not recruiting Victoria, since from what I understand you can only do so by locking yourself out of Enberg (devs have confimed choices on that matter are currently bugged, I tried lying to her but ended up recruiting her anyway, and the game acts as if I went through with murdering the count of Enberg as she asked, hope that'll be fixed for my next playthrough).
  
• Which in turn probably means duelling her, so you'll need a knight with top strengh and agility, and good... what was it? Intuition? Should have jotted that down too. Maybe focusing on raising those stats on Angelica from the start would work since she starts with high agility and her pure heart means the sword of the lake gives you an added +3 strengh?

And that's all I got for now. But yeah, pretty sure there is an ideal playthrough with an ideal ending you can only get in new game +, by not using the demon and playing very deliberatly.

You are correct on all counts. For Victoria, the NG+ you get by finishing the game and then rewinding and keeping knowledge+stuff but with 0 trime travel count lets you get a secondary quest that deals with her before you even get to Enberg. You DO need a smattering of stats though, mostly STR, WIT (high for those) and medium MAG. I did it in act 2, this seems to be the easiest point you can do it at. The next thing to look at is if there is some other quest line that removes her demon instead, as Gideon has an event after she dies where he says she had changed but he used to admire her

[glyxcerine]

Hi, I am still trying to figure out how to get the golden key without rewinding / using the demon power, since Epicrate basically told us to not use it for the ending ...

On my end Angelica didn't get the quest where she can find the Golden Key either (like my previous playthrough using demon power).

Any idea?

Never mind, update, I found my answer:

You need to reunite every single county (10), until then you'll receive a quest to find the Golden Key (needs 5 of your knights). Make sure you found them before your last cycle vs Arthur.

I got the Epicrate ending, but honestly the effort to even reach there and received THIS ending after is very underwhelming ... find out yourselves guys

[Ness]

Originally posted by Tozobi:

Originally posted by Strategos:

I'm still on my first playthrough. I'm doing it without using the demon powers, though I'm not sure that's relevant for what follows. I think I'm starting to understand stuff, which I'll be testing on my next playthrough, and in a nutshell, if I'm right : using the demon locks you out of the perfect ending, which you can only get in new game + anyway, during a second playthrough. Details in the spoiler below.

According to the serpent knight Epicrates, who seems to be aware of the time loop mechanic and the demon, to get the best ending I need to get the Golden Key. He listed several requirements:

• Not using the demon in the concerned timeline.
  
• Getting ALL the allied lands.
  
• Which means uniting Groveshire and Gavault in the beginning of the game with the help of the "lost child" as he says. So I assume you can only do that by learning in a previous playthrough, as I did, that the knight Gideon is the lost hidden son of both families, hence my assumption of it being a New Game + thing, where you can have that knowledge without demon rewinding.
  
• Which also probably means not recruiting Victoria, since from what I understand you can only do so by locking yourself out of Enberg (devs have confimed choices on that matter are currently bugged, I tried lying to her but ended up recruiting her anyway, and the game acts as if I went through with murdering the count of Enberg as she asked, hope that'll be fixed for my next playthrough).
  
• Which in turn probably means duelling her, so you'll need a knight with top strengh and agility, and good... what was it? Intuition? Should have jotted that down too. Maybe focusing on raising those stats on Angelica from the start would work since she starts with high agility and her pure heart means the sword of the lake gives you an added +3 strengh?

And that's all I got for now. But yeah, pretty sure there is an ideal playthrough with an ideal ending you can only get in new game +, by not using the demon and playing very deliberatly.

You are correct on all counts. For Victoria, the NG+ you get by finishing the game and then rewinding and keeping knowledge+stuff but with 0 trime travel count lets you get a secondary quest that deals with her before you even get to Enberg. You DO need a smattering of stats though, mostly STR, WIT (high for those) and medium MAG. I did it in act 2, this seems to be the easiest point you can do it at. The next thing to look at is if there is some other quest line that removes her demon instead, as Gideon has an event after she dies where he says she had changed but he used to admire her

How can I unite Groveshire and Gauvault before...there is no such option or is there? Does anyone have any tips?

[Randomdude5]

Originally posted by Ness:

Originally posted by Tozobi:

You are correct on all counts. For Victoria, the NG+ you get by finishing the game and then rewinding and keeping knowledge+stuff but with 0 trime travel count lets you get a secondary quest that deals with her before you even get to Enberg. You DO need a smattering of stats though, mostly STR, WIT (high for those) and medium MAG. I did it in act 2, this seems to be the easiest point you can do it at. The next thing to look at is if there is some other quest line that removes her demon instead, as Gideon has an event after she dies where he says she had changed but he used to admire her

How can I unite Groveshire and Gauvault before...there is no such option or is there? Does anyone have any tips?

I dunno... maybe Gideon has some idea? I think you should get to know him better.

[Tozobi]

Originally posted by Ness:

Originally posted by Tozobi:

You are correct on all counts. For Victoria, the NG+ you get by finishing the game and then rewinding and keeping knowledge+stuff but with 0 trime travel count lets you get a secondary quest that deals with her before you even get to Enberg. You DO need a smattering of stats though, mostly STR, WIT (high for those) and medium MAG. I did it in act 2, this seems to be the easiest point you can do it at. The next thing to look at is if there is some other quest line that removes her demon instead, as Gideon has an event after she dies where he says she had changed but he used to admire her

How can I unite Groveshire and Gauvault before...there is no such option or is there? Does anyone have any tips?

What the previous poster said. If you want more spoilers: if you complete his personal quest you learn his identity, and you can use that when you start over after you finish the game

[Greg Bahm]

I appreciate the effort to tag spoilers. but surely anyone in this thread has to want to read spoilers if they came into this thread.

So I beat the game while using some demon rewinds. The only one I really needed to use was the one to save Angelica from murder.

Later in the game, Angelica finds the second golden key. I assumed if I allied every nation, and had this second golden key, maybe there was a cool secret ending.

But I'm gathering from this thread that I need to:
1. Let Angelica get murdered.
2. Beat the game. Get a "no demon time rewind back to turn zero."
3. Beat the game again, because now I'll have the foresight as if I used demon time rewind?

Kind of annoying that there's seemingly no way to get the good ending on this second playthrough without a third playthrough...

[GullsForSale]

I got the ending without uniting all the nations (I messed up one by recruiting Victoria). Angelica was the one to retrieve the key in my playthrough, but idk what triggered the quest though. Had 0 time travel.

[Aboutsaturn9151]

Originally posted by GullsForSale:

I got the ending without uniting all the nations (I messed up one by recruiting Victoria). Angelica was the one to retrieve the key in my playthrough, but idk what triggered the quest though. Had 0 time travel.

From what I've read so far elsewhere, Angelica gets you the golden key if you do her personal quest and can bypass the usual united kingdom requirement to find it. But thats hard because its easy for her to get murdered, or she'll just never give you her personal quest for whatever reason...