How to defend against tractor beams?

[Darquan]

Hi, I play with a friend who often beats me with tractor beams and creative so has all the ground combat techs. The combat would start and his ships move forward and capture mine instantly. I wondered if anyone had thoughts on ways to defend against this?

[Darkshape]

1. Rush
Creative races are very powerful if left alone early, but because the perk is so expensive they usually lack many ships and colonies in the early game. Consider attacking your friend sooner in the game. Invade his undefended colonies and blocade his home until you can destroy his starbase. If you let him research cloning center and soil enrichment, robo-miners, pollution processor, holo simulator and planetary supercomputer, he will have obtained the economic advantage he needs over you and your death is already practically guaranteed. However, it takes time to research and then build these buildings; time he doesn't have in an early rush game.

To rush in the early game you need to find him, which means building colonies and outposts to get within fuel range for the attack. Colonies are expensive but can be grown for more economy. Outposts are cheap but will not grow. Both extend fuel range. Use the right combination to reach your friend with maximum fleet size.

Rushing also means being ready with a force of sufficient power to invade his colonies. You don't need to invade every colony immediately to win. Take the undefended ones and grow them for more economy while eliminating his. If you cannot defend a colony you take just destroy it! Blocade his defended colonies until the defenses can be overrun. Attack his colonies and retreat after a short time to make kills on any ships he has without losing ships of your own. Give him no repreive and no quarter.

2. Spies
Spies can help with sabotage and technology theft, but are (in my experience) fairly unreliable when you need it now. Spies are great because if your friend neglects to build counterspies you can steal his hard-researched prize technologies. If you are really lucky you might even sabotage his starbase.

It is easy enough for him to build counterspies, but doing so is expensive in industry for a research empire. Force him to choose between spending his meager industry on defensive spies, military, and economy. He won't thank you for the hard choice.

3. Fleet Counter
If the game has already progressed to the point where he has tractor beams and powerful soldiers you will find it much more difficult to oppose him. Consider outfitting your ships with security stations for the defensive marine bonus. Use neutron blasters to kills his marines. Use missiles and fighters against him at long range while pulling your ships back and eventually retreating from the engagement in order to weaken his fleet. Use heavy mounted beam weapons to destroy his ships before they get close. Be mindful of your hit chance. Don't use autofire if your hit is only okay, and don't use beam weapons at all if you just have bad computers and no battle scanner. Missiles can be easily countered by ECM from only the first shielding technology level, but only the starbase is guaranteed to be protected and planets are never protected. The physics tree can help counter the missile evasion stat by researching a better scanner (IE Neutron Scanner). Missiles and fighters can both be shot down, so if you enemy has powerful beam weapons and + hit modifiers you might just be screwed if you don't have a huge fleet. Figure out what your friend likes to put on his ships and build ships to counter that. Use overwhelming fleet size you have built up all game to kill his paltry battleship or destroyer fleet and hurry in to invade. Be careful of attrition to your fleet if you need numbers to win (IE he out-techs you militarily).

4. Diplomacy
If the game is a large map size and includes other players, consider working to form an alliance with his neighbors to combat him. If the other players are easy to defeat you can invade them for an econommic edge against your friend. If the other players are too hard then you have bigger problems than your friend!

Trade technology!!! Trade only for technology you need. If you have a technology that one player wants, usually all of them will want it. Trade only this one technology to ALL(!) of the other players for any technology you can get, or don't trade it to any of them. Obtaining new technologies through trade is the best way to combat creative players in the economic (long) game who just research it themselves.

5. Conclusion
Good luck! Let me know which of these tips is most helpful to you so that I might expound more if needed.

[Darquan]

Hi Darkshape, thank you so much for answering very thoroughly! Great advice. We do play on large and often i am ahead on tech and production for the reasons you give.

I see all your points and tactics and do try to attack if i start close enough. One thing i wonder about, is there a specific technology and protects against tractor beams as hard shield do for transporters?

Id also be interested in any further thoughts on space combat tactics such as high manouverabiity and rear firing weapons.

Thanks again for the info!

[Darkshape]

There is no direct counter to tractor beams. If your ship is in range then the tractor beam can always be applied to it and will always slow or immobilize it. You should therefore keep out of his maximum tractor range. For this reason, shy away from regular mounted weapons as your main damage source.

Yes, rear firing beam weapons would help! Turn your ship around and move toward map edge and keep damage on the enemy ships. Rear arc could be fine if you plan just to move to the map edge, but if plan on playing "tag" you might consider a wide arc instead. This can only work with equipped stabilizer/nullifier equipment and a faster ship drive. I would probably still opt for short engagements and choose to retreat instead of getting caught and losing possession of your ship to the enemy.

Remember, fleets with mounted tractor teams are using precious space points on the tractor beams instead of other weapons and equipment. Tractor beams are an excellent way to multiply your fleet-wide combat power, but lack range. The only way to defeat tractors is to exploit the range deficiency.

[Darkshape]

Actually I just thought of an interesting strategy: Junk Ships! Not sure if it could work, but it would be amusing to find out.

Build frigates designed only to evade enemy weapons fire. On the tactical map, place the ships close enough to your important ships that the enemy can't bypass them to board your more valuable battleships. Essentially use them as roadblocks or dragon's teeth. Make sure they are cheap and expendable. They also have to be annoyingly spongy to incoming fire so that he cannot just blow it up and get in close, or at least enough so that he disproportionately wastes his time firing on them to blow them up.

Design could be:
No battle pods (too expensive).
Inertial stabilizer (nulifier might be too expensive in BPs)
Tractor beams (to counter tractor him)
Quantum Detonator (for the lulz)
Troop Pods + Security Stations (optional, depending on utility)
Nothing else (to keep cost down)

Possible negatives:
1. Ships can be captured, including these.
2. Command point limitations
3. All ships are assets and have value. Attrition is a ♥♥♥♥♥.

Thats all I got for now. Good luck!

[Darkshape]

I lied. Here are some more useful techs for you:

Subspace teleporter (playing tag, right?)
Black Hole Generator (immobilize him!)

Sadly these are hard to get.

I think tractor beams are generally a counter vs augmented engines, or I would recommend them.

[Darquan]

Thanks again Darkfire! Some really interesting ideas. The only downside to the frigate idea is that they are easy ships to capture and thus the enemy can scrap the ships for technology. Very viable if they already have these though. Also once he has the transporter tech he uses them a lot too to overcome the range deficiency, that can be negated by hard shields though.

Run to subspace teleporter is a good idea that is worth trying if tech is strong enough!

I will keep experimenting and see if i can develop these, thanks very much!

[Darkshape]

Did you know that in the ship customization screen you can assign different subsystems to your ship, including lower techs? I don't think you can do this with engine technology because that gets automatically added to all your ships when researched, BUT I know you can use inferior shield systems. I think you can also use an inferior computer system. If you do this with the frigates you can prevent him from getting those technologies, at least. Part of the design of limiting your equipment usage on a frigate is to prevent the enemy from stealing those technologies. I guess the lesson to take from this issue is to only use technologies that he already has equal to or superior.

Transporters can be countered with hard shields, but yes it does complicate things. Just goes to show you how powerful strong marines are.

Edit: I just checked in game and verified that you can use inferior SHIELD and COMPUTER systems. Armor and engine subsystems cannot be downranked, so those technologies will be vulnerable to capture.

[Darquan]

I havnt thought of doing that, very interesting again, makes the frigate tactic viable and can downgrade a number of systems if he goes tractor beam heavy, thanks again!

[Darkshape]

I have an addendum to add to the early aggression strategy.

Tactical Map Planetary Genocide
If you have generally powerful early weapons but are unable to overcome stacked colony or fleet defenses, instead focus all of your attacks on the planet. You can destroy population and buildings while on the tactical map by overkilling planetary defenses, or simply attacking while the planet does not have a missile base, fighter garrison, ground batteries, or stellar converter. A colony with 0 population will eventually die out, even if it still has a starbase. The enemy can still freighter in new population to save the colony, if he has population to sacrifice and you don't maintain a blocade.

Good Equipment to use:
1. MIRV Missiles - These are the best because of the high burst damage potential, especially when used on a planet that can never have missile evasion. Use x2 shot missiles instead of the default x5, and fire each shot at the same space so all the missiles stack into the first set. Fast Missile Racks are not necessary, but can be helpful. Nuclear missiles work fine against titanium and tritanium armor and can be installed if you research pollution processor level technology (650 RPs). Launch them en masse. If you lack sufficient payload to destroy everything in one attack, just retreat and attack again! Make sure you have at least one ship that can stay in the battle until the missiles have hit. Fast missiles are best for this reason. A good ship to leave behind would be a frigate with a high beam defense.

2. Heavy Mounted Beam Weapons - Just pack a battleship with as many heavy mounted weapons of the highest grade you have. Fire for a few turns against the planet until you are forced to retreat. A good hit rating is not needed because planets can't have beam defense and are always hit. Be mindful of damage penalties due to range. Missiles work better because of the huge front-loaded burst damage, but beam weapons are fine too.

3. Bombs - Pretty straight forward: rush in and bomb the planet as much as you can. Be mindful that you have to get in close. Fortunately you should have okay engines if you went for bombs. High defense ships are a must if you use these.

3a. Death Spores and Bio-terminators - I have never actually used these, but this is the situation to use them in. Be mindful that planetary shields significantly limit their effectiveness.


Risks:
1. Fleet Attrition. The point here is that you can't overwhelm or destroy some or any of his defenses. This means those defenses are always attacking and damaging your ships! Make sure he also has a hard time damaging your fleet or this will not be cost effective, or perhaps not even work at all. Keep at maximum range if possible. Bomb ships must be amazingly resilient to be effective.

2 - Warp Dissipator - This tech is a game changer for this strategy because it prevents repeated attacks. An inability to retreat means you either win or lose your fleet. Make sure he doesn't have this tech before you try for repeated attacks. It will always be installed on every starbase if researched, so if you can't destroy or cripple the starbase don't try for guerrilla tactics.

3. Planetary Shielding - Can't destroy what you can't damage. Shouldn't be a problem in the early game because of reserach cost. Missiles and bombs still work great against shielded planets.

[Slimurgical (Stormy)]

One thing that also helps, is the shameless spamming of assault shuttles.

Thing about them too is that if you have anymore than say... 30 in one squadron, there's really nothing the enemy can do about it unless they gang up on one squadron with basically Pulsars or Quantum Detonators, since they never miss, or almost never miss.

Anti-missle Rockets are decent, but only against low numbers of them if they also have less than Tritanium armor, since they're also hard to hit.

Doom Stars filled with them are just horrifying to behold honestly if they can get them out of the launch bay, and then to have the fight last long enough for them to work.

They can be destroyed, but at that level, it's hilariously stupid how much you have to do if your level of tech is roughly identical to theirs.

Doom Stars can essentially have about 60-ish levels of Assault Shuttles, which I think is atleast 200 actual shuttles if all in one group.

Assault Shuttles ignore shields, hard shields, there is 0 hard counter to them, other than to destroy them before they can invade their target.

What's worse, is their marine totals are independent of the launch ship's marine total, and they're also horribly free, but don't replenish. But if you stock a cruiser with 'em, and launch them at a cruiser, there's very little they can do to counter it, and you'll usually take the enemy ship with 'em... so long as you're not outnumbered, and you're also not killed before that happens.

They can easily take Antaran Ships, and even the best-designed AI ships. Only downside to them is that they're pretty far up the tech tree. I believe they're about 3 levels below the end of the Construction tree, but oh man.

If you could design Star Bases, it would break Assault Shuttles entirely, and immediately, since they're roughly equal to a battlecruiser if not a titan for size. xD

Probly not useful info, but hey, it's info. C:

[Darkshape]

I don't normally use assault shuttles because I find them too easily destroyed in an equal engagement, but if you outnumber the enemy due to an industry advantage they can be are one of the strongest weapons in the game. A wise commander will bring spacial compressor (or whatever it's called) to nova them as a defense, or otherwise use autofiring beam weapons (phasors) to eliminate them. However, if you outnumber the enemy 2-1 or can get in close without your ship being destroyed you can either overwhelm attacks against the shuttles by shear volume, or just dump shuttles on the enemy ships directly for a free capture. In any case, assault shuttles are a fine example of a tool that can be employed to great effect and should not be underestimated.

However for the context of this discussion, the OP's original premise is that the enemy has superior marines and is afraid of losing ships to these marines via tractor beam. I don't think assault shuttles would be viable in that scenario because the premise already states that the OP's marines would lose in an engagement. Still, anything that deters a close engagement, such as assault shuttles that may pose a viable threat, is worth considering. After all, tractor beams are also great when combined with beam weapons to just destroy enemy ships since tractor beams' slowing effect reduces beam defense on the targeted ship. In that scenario, counter assault shuttles would likely prove very effective.

[Delthea]

How long do your games usually last?

If they make it past turn 200, creative/tech races win, by virtue of having more/better tech.

Your options are as follows:
1) Play a production race, and overrun him before he can get the irritating techs (warp interdictor, Microlite/Zortrium/Nanobots, etc.) Uni/Aqua/2Prod and Uni/Tol/1Prod easily have their first colony base by turn 35, and you can get the relevant techs for war via research labs.

2) Outrun your opponent. Warlord, Transdimensional, and Augmented Engines will work in tandem to allow you to go first. If you know he's gonna tractor you, then skip missiles entirely and go for beams. Enveloping fusion beams with +Ship Attack, Battle Scanner, and a decent computer will allow you to drop a lot of ships before he gets the chance to move.

3) What's legal? In online play, back in the day, things like "trading tech" and "building warp interdictors" were banned. If you're allowed to trade with the computer, go Charismatic. I have a video where I crush impossible with -10 picks and only Charismatic as my positive trait. Once you've got a sizable fleet, start making demands of the weaker races (check via the info button), and use those techs to run your friend over.

Relevant ship for anti-tractor:
-Augmented Engines (250 RP, special system) for +5 combat speed.
-Ship Drives (Antimatter drive, Interphased drive, hyperdrive) will help you go first. Up to +7 combat speed
-Warlord for increased combat speed and weapon accuracy
-Transdimensional for +4 combat speed.
-Inertial Stabilizer with 360 degree beam weapons. Fire. Run. Fire. Run. Also great vs missile ships.

Relevant ship for beam tech:
-Ship computer (Optronic, Cybertronic, Moleculartronic) for increased hit rate, up to +125
-Battle Scanner (250 RP, Physics, special system) for +50 hit rate
-Structural Analyzer (Computers, special system) for double damage that pierces shields.
-Many levels in Physics (to reduce the space/cost requirements of beam weapons)
-Armor (Chemistry. Zortrium is a good milestone, but bigger is better if you can get there)
--Fusion (HV, Enveloping) First usable weapon. If your opponent doesn't have big shields, this guy is the best. Enveloping means "4x damage", which is fantastic.
--Plasma Cannon (Hv) is next, at 3500 RP. It's a bit risky to try and go this high vs a tech race, but it's going to be usable throughout the whole game if you do get it. Naturally enveloping, it's a weapon that easily destroys Orion's guardian, if he exists in your games.
--Phasor (Hv, Autofire, Shield pierce) is a fantastic choice if your opponent gets shields that aren't hardened. The damage/cost ratio is enormous, but it requires you to go past Plasmas, which is a huge investment.
--Disruptor Cannon (Hv, Autofire, Rangemaster Unit if available) is probably the strongest weapon you'll have access to vs a tech race. It's also the weakest beam weapon that's able to penetrate the planetary barrier shield.

[Talithmara]

Fun story about marines and assault shuttles (Was playing on Average difficulty, for the record.)

When I was still experimenting with all the perks and races and such, I once had two Bulrathi marines (on a blockaded world; it was being sustained by only the automatic +2 food generation from a subterranian farm) defend a colony against repeated attacks by 40+ Sakkra at a time trying to take the world. I fully intended on relocating those two marines to a comfier planet in honor of their bravery, but as I finally got a fleet in there, the Sakkra were like "Screw this, we're bombing."

Fortunately, seeing this in action really made me go "So... these assault shuttles...." and WOW, the end result was absolutely hilarious. My fleets began to only have two ship types: Assault Shuttle Carriers with no other weapons, and Bombers to finish off the planetary Missile/Ground batteries. The bombers were only because I'd have to retreat due to not being able to launch assault shuttles at planets. My empire basically became Repo-men, just taking all the ships and then scrapping them for tech and currency.

You may be wondering, "What if a Space Amoeba, Eel, or Dragon attacks?" Well, the eel and amoeba were what brought me to my knees. I couldn't defeat the eel, so it kept spawning and spreading to my other planets. I had one system left that wasn't blockaded (with only one planet) and was trying to build anti-eel forces, only to have an Amoeba appear and make it toxic. (Yeah, apparently an invading Amoeba can make a world toxic if not defeated.) That's what I get for putting all my eggs in one basket and for not keeping the ships I commandeered.

[Darkshape]

I had an interesting game as silicoid using assault shuttles (which I stated above as something I rarely use). I was playing on impossible difficulty and had expanded over my own fifth of a large galaxy, all in the upper right corner of the map. I had neutron blasters and class three shields with zortrium armor and ion drive. I decided to improve my marines by researching both personal shield and anti-grav harness (+20 and +10 marine combat). I also had reinforced the hulls of my ships.

Suddenly I was attacked by the Gnolem, Mrrshan, and Alkari at the same time. Things looked bad as all of them suddenly had allied and given the others Adamantium armor, antimater drive and class five shields or better. They collectively had only zortrium armor, ion drive, and class one shields but ten or fifteen turns before. They still used neutron blasters or mass drivers, and did not have a huge bonus to beam accuracy.

I had a large fleet, but my ships were no match in a striaght beam-brawl, so I fled back to preserve them. I only focused on blowing up the remnant population one colonies they had taken from me to deny them access to my inner systems that were populated and developed. I looked at my tech tree and decided that the only way I could win was with assault shuttles, which thankfully I was ready to research. A few turns later I had researched the technology, and many of my ships were retrofitted to accomodate the systems.

Suddenly a vast Mrrshan fleet was detected headed for Cryslon, ETA three turns. They had about eighteen battleships and an assortment of smaller vessels. I opposed them with about the same number of ships, as battleships and hastily built cruisers 75/25 mix.

This fleet was made possible by a minus thirty to fourty or so command point deficit and just enough treasury to avoid raising taxes until battle was made. This was only made possible by trade goods from my otherwise non-industrial colonies (after research was completed) and ship juggling to have otherwise completed ships in build queue to save on command points. Keep in mind that I had just lost many worlds with starbases or battle stations, but not my fleet, so my command points had plummeted.

In an epic battle to decide the fate of the Silicoid people I lost about half of my ships and my battle station (no other planetary defenses were present), but captured about half of their battleships. This was all thanks to the rediculous bravery and tenacity of the assault shuttle marines who won the day, and also the ship captains who got as close to the enemy as possible before launching shuttles and then retreating to hyperspace before they could be destroyed and nova the recent shuttle launches. My brave men were up against the relatively outrageous beam accuracy of the hyper-experienced Mrrshan gunners and their indomintable beam defense.

The tactical battle itself lasted about twenty minutes real time because I had to manually destroy the last few enemy ships with my relic heavy mounted neutron blasters. However, the battle was ultimately ended only when I self-destructed a badly damaged cruiser on the last two enemy vessels, one of three remaining combat-ready ships present in the engagement. It is fortunate that the enemy ships were only destroyers and not battleships or I could never have destroyed them and save the ships I had captured, and most importantly, their technology.

The game got a lot easier after that. I salvaged adamantium armor, anti-matter drive, and class five shields to gain ship defense and mobility pairity. My remaining fleet was soon retrofitted and reinforced by new ship elements from my four rich/ultra-rich worlds (with +60 percent industry and ship experience leader). The galaxy fell to my red rock people soon afterward.

The important lessons from this story are to be adaptable and ruthless in execution. I had to blow my own people up (the few who survived enemy bombardment and occupation) to save the rest in my inner colonies. I had to let my worlds succumb to onslaught to preserve my fleet and stay in the game. I had to stretch my economy to the breaking point to maximize my fleet size before the critical battle. I had to develop a plan to actually win a fleet engagement by using technology I generally had avoided as having been deemed weak. I had to buy enough time to actualize the plan and hold my ships at strategicly important positions be able to move to the invasion point before I lost critical worlds. That game was almost a monumental loss, but ultimately became one of my proudest victories.

[Delthea]

Jonesin' to play, but nobody's around, so I'll make a video.

Next time your friend tractors you, please save the game the turn after he attacks you. When the game ends, load up the save file (Multiplayer > Hotseat > Load game), and start the game on his turn. Note some things for me:
Type/Number of ships - 3 battleships? 2 battleships and 3 cruisers? 8 destroyers?
Armor type - Zortrium/Tritanium? Heavy armor/reinforced hull?
Combat speed - Augmented engines? Ion drive? Antimatter drive?
Shields, if any - Low/no shields are crushed by enveloping fusion beams. High shields require a different strategy.
Beam defense - Inertial stabilizers researched/equipped?
Missile defense - Equipped with 360 degree PD beams or anti-missile rockets? ECM Jammer? Wide Area Jammer?
Turn number - You can tell this by looking at the stardate. 3510.2 is turn 102. 3509.7 is turn 97.
Galaxy Size
Any other relevant information - Assault shuttle count? Troop pods? Banned racial picks? Refusal to play a certain way? Other house rules?

I'll make videos showing how to rush creatives, and another on how to beat the specific tractor beam ships you're having trouble with in space combat if you let them outtech you.