LiftOff Drift

[CnLinker]

i was wondering if there is a way of making the kwad more loked, turning and cuting corners is horrible, the drones drift a lot when making sharp corners, any sugestions?

[Zab_FPV]

I to have been wondering this, im sure thell tell us "everything is working as intended", or your silly "your system dose not meet the requirements", or "you think your going slower than you actualy are", or "its your FOV giving an optical illusion", anything to address the actual problem, LuGus thinks were idiots and know nothing.

But i think it would have to come down to drag, and or thrust or lack there of.

I dont think if there weights/physics are right as they say they are, that the kwads would have that much inertia/momentum that they would carry them that far around the corner and make them drift like they do, considering that opposet force would be being applyed by the thrust of the props
(which in most cases is 3 to 4 times + that of the kwads weight.)

if you watch real kwads on tight tracks or sharp corners they can pretty much stop on a dime

watch some of the tight turns Nurk makes in this latest vid, especially at the end befor he lands, that stop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0cVtOO9kaU and then try it in liftoff its pretty hard to do i think.

just my 2 cents :)

[CnLinker]

It is very hard to turn when you have to almos roll 90 degrees and aply yaw plus throtle just to do a sharp turn, and still get drifted away, in my opinion this is not correct, flying a real kwad dont drift that much not even with default betaflight settings, DRL, Rotor Rush, and velocidrone feell much more locked in.

everything is perfect, its just that drift that complicates everithing

[LuGus Studios]

Originally posted by xMistdemon420x:

I to have been wondering this, im sure thell tell us "everything is working as intended", or your silly "your system dose not meet the requirements", or "you think your going slower than you actualy are", or "its your FOV giving an optical illusion", anything to address the actual problem, LuGus thinks were idiots and know nothing.

I know I shouldn't react to this, but I will do so anyway. I see you are frustrated with the way we try to find issues and provide solutions. I can assure you we have no intentions to annoy anyone, we simply want the process to be as efficient as possible. When we try to figure out what the cause of an issue is , we have to ask these questions, that in some cases seem unrelated to the topic at hand. When we ask someone what hardware he is using, we don't do this to annoy them and we don't do this to ignore potential issues with the game. We ask these questions to eliminate common causes of the issue and narrow down our search area. Its an elimination process where we start with the most common and likely causes and go down the list of less common causes. After two years it doesn't happen a lot that we haven't seen an issue yet, and if we haven't before at least we have a good indication where not to look anymore.

I know some people don't appreciate what Im going to say, but it sometimes happen that we get wrong information, that we don't get truthful answers or that the question was not completely understood. That's why we sometimes repeat or questions, just to be sure.

When it comes to issues that get reported we've learned that about 50% of them are issues unrelated to our software. You will blame me for saying it, but the truth is that these issues are sometimes hardware issues are simply user-errors. The other 50% of the issues are completely our fault. In many case these are issues we are already aware off and haven't had the time to deal with yet, in other cases they are completely unknown and have to be figured out. We take full responsibility for the issues created on our side and we do that by actively talking with the community and by constantly releasing fixes and updates.

Other topics of discussion are: 1) opinions being shared as factual issues. 2) contradicting feedback. 3) attitude

1. people have different opinions and preferences. Sometimes opinions get shared in a way where people feel we should change the game to fit there personal preference more. We always look at the bigger picture and the general story the community is telling us and never focus on a personal level. I think a good example of this would be the debate about god-mode: some like it, other don't. Some want us to remove it, yet that's not in the best interest of the whole player base.
   
   
2. Especially related to flight behaviour and physics, we get a lot of contradicting feedback on just about anything. No one seems to agree about what the best simulator is, nor does anyone agree if Liftoff physics are the best or the worst. This is a battle we can never really win, yet we try our best to make as many people happy as possible. We do a lot to make sense out of all of the feedback we get: we look at global analytics, we work with some of the top pilots, and we talk to researches and engineers to constantly improve the flight behaviour in liftoff.
   
   
3. simply put: some people mistake "sending feedback" with being rude, insulting the people who work on this each day and demanding things. We have no policy that says we ignore rude posts, nor do we have a rule that says we should not help these people. Yet at the end of the day, we are simply humans too (surprise!) and the level of respect we get also impacts our mood and motivation.

You suggest we have been ignoring feedback related to flight behaviour and physics, I say we haven't at all. 50% of our development time is put towards addressing issues reported by the community, that comes down to a full year of development that's being directed by the community. I suspect you had send us some feedback in the past and I assume your feedback did not get the most enthusiastic reaction from us. There's no need to take it personal, it's not. If we refer to thinks like "performance", "perception of distance and speed" and so on, it's because these things matter to the issue that's being presented to us. It might frustrate you, but we will stop asking these same questions when we stop communicating all together.
I'm sure you are very much aware of the blogpost we have dedicated to physics and flight behaviour[www.liftoff-game.com], and I'm sure it might be part of the frustration. We use the blogpost a lot as a reference, and thats exactly why we wrote it. I truly believe in what we do and what we communicate about. We are not ignoring the issues, nor are we pointing in a different direction. We explain the issue, we define potential causes, we explain what we are doing, and we suggest what you can do to help. I don't know what more you can expect from us?


So once again, this is what we have done:

• More drone parts and frames that have a huge impact on flight behaviour (see update 0.8.0)
  
• Completely reworking or workbench feature. You’ll be able to save multiple drone configurations with flight controller and PID settings tuned to that specific configuration . (see update 0.8.0) (see update 0.10.0)
  
• We are constantly fine-tuning the stats and behavior of our individual in-game drone parts. (see every big update, including 0.8.0) (updates to come)
  
• Further fine-tuning of our flight behavior and simulation code: taking more real-life aspects in account and further improving the systems already implemented. (see update 0.8.0) (see update 0.10.0) (updates to come)
  
• We are planning on improving the crash and damage detecting systems. (see update 0.10.10)
  
• We want a stronger link to virtual drone racing and real racing. Betaflight was implemented.(see update 0.10.0)
  
• Improving the game performance, to reduce gameplay lag (see update 0.7.2)
  
• Improve the game input systems to be less depending on game performance. (see experimental branch) (updates to come)

[CnLinker]

Thank you for your answer, i got all the answers i dit not aked, yet i dont have the answer i asked, so to make this simple to understand, take a real kwad, and fly some corners, do sharp corners, now does it drift 1 meter or 2 away? no, now, go lunch LiftOff, an do the same thing, try cuting corners sharply, does it drift 1 meter or 2? Yes. OK, can you fix this in the next update Lugus Studio?. i know this is hard, i am a programer, i know the dificulty, but comon, loock for all the discucions about drifting, the comunity knows this is something that needs to be fixed, becos it just isnt correct in real world, yes, sure there si a bit of drift, but no that much like in the game, so i hope that you understand the issue, or do i need to make a video showing what i mean?

[Dravenos]

have you tried tuning pids and rates? many of the issues i found with quads feeling "drifty" where solved once I did some research and started diving into tuning properly. It takes a lot of effort, but well worth it if you want to make your quad "feel" a specific way

[LuGus Studios]

Originally posted by CnLinker:

Thank you for your answer, i got all the answers i dit not aked

Im sorry for the confusion, that was not directed at you. I quoted xMistdemon420x, to react specifically to what he has said. I agree his response, and as a result my reaction to it, does not contribute to your original question in any meaningful way.

My previous post is not an intention to answer your question, I don't have an answer to it and I'm leaving that to someone who knows more about the topic than I do. I personally don't do any work related to physics and flight behaviour.

Originally posted by CnLinker:

OK, can you fix this in the next update Lugus Studio?. i know this is hard, i am a programer, i know the dificulty, but comon, look for all the discucions about drifting, the comunity knows this is something that needs to be fixed, becos it just isnt correct in real world, yes, sure there si a bit of frift, but no that much like in the game, so i hope that you understand the issue, or do i need to make a video showing what i mean?

We are aware of many of the issues related too flight behaviour and physics and improving them is not a matter of simply pushing out an update. So no, it won't be fixed in the next update, we might not even have it fixed in the next 10 updates.
For the last 2 years we have been releasing updates on average every 10 days. Not all of them are related to physics, yet many of them are. Simulating the flight behaviour of drones is a very complex matter that no one truly understand completely. What we do with Liftoff is an iterative process where we constantly try new things, pushing small changes and see how that feels. We are also educating ourselves about it.
Earlier this week we talked to a researcher who has tested drone frames in wind tunnels to learn more about how drag works on frames. We learned things that no one else would have been able to tell us, because its the result of this specific research. We know that what we learned will again provide great improvements, in fact it is directly related to things like cutting corners and what drag effects the turning behaviour of a quad.

The truth of the matter is, we will never succeed it what we want to do. We are trying to copy a complex behaviour and a less that perfect simulation of real life: a virtual space. It will never be 100% the same, its never going to be perfect, yet we try to push it as far as we can.

[LuGus Studios]

You know what: actually the real answer to your question "can you fix this in the next update Lugus Studio" would be closer to: we have been fixing it for atleast 2 years and are still fixing it.

[CnLinker]

Awesome, my question is answered, all i wanted to know is if you were going to fix this problem, thank you, for taking the time on answering my question, enithing else in the game is amaizing, i enjoy freestyling and the maps, and yes i know how hard it is working on complex code and algorithms. Once again, thank you.

[J-FURN]

lugus your awesome. if your drifting in the cornoers more throttle dude cmon

[End of Days]

I find turning to the direction i want with the left stick while giving it some yaw and a punch of throttle give a good shift of direction i spend a whole evening working on cornering and found the drifting was all my poor control inputs. This was the biggest issue i had when i started byt its a learning curve not and software fault in my opinion.

drone are flying through the air your grip is the thrust of the drone it can`t just turn like its on rails you have momentum to counter I think it feels very close to my Wizard .

[daveskie69]

totally agree with the last 2 comments and if you ask a pro racer they will probably tell you the same. I know you won't like me telling you this and thats totally fine but the differance between you and Nurk is more down to skill than physics. I would say out of all the sims this feels harder to fly than the rest but also the most realistic compared to flying my "RL quad". if you like easy (arcade style) then I suggest you go and play the others. Problem solved.

Maybe you should watch someone who can corner and watch the stick inputs. He is flying the same sim as you but it's no magic that makes him fly and corner better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfcFbiL_RDI

P.S. am I missing something with the spelling of Quad spelt as Kwad?
I know ImpulseRC make the Alien Kwad but Quad is still spelt Quad.

[oragon82]

i thought this too when I started. I had problems on cornering and managing the drift. I put in about 30 hrs so far and I'm able to corner a lot better and no drifting. You have to ease on the throttle a little bit and put some throttle when you have the quad on the direction you want.

[sojulier]

LuGus Studios welcome to the world of whiners and smartasses or world of gaming. Sometimes, I call world of kids and idiots. On second thought, the gaming community as whole is filled with whining idiots. They always blame the devs for some reason. It usually comes down to forgetting to change batteries on thier controller and not knowing how wifi works or bluetooth.

Here is my point. I have tried number of sims out there and so far, Liftoff is the best. Only sim with betaflight simulation that matches the real thing. Ability to play with PIDs and RC rates. Yeah you guys rock! Pat yourself on the back and know that you guys have a group of fans. Just ignore the whiners....