Classes comparison

[Dorok]

I tried search and then browse the message to find something covering already the subject and found nothing. There's a Steam mini guide covering the topic (check Guides section) but I wanted more or argue about it.

For me some classes are better, because they work better overall. So very superficially and not considering specific builds, from best to worst:

1. Dwarf Champion, manage his constitutionion along a mission is a lot more easy than for the only concurent class, Human Warrior. He is at least as much resilient than Human Warrior, if not more resilient, and will cost a lot less to equip than the Human Warrior.

2. Elf Hunter, in general classes weaker for surviving many attacks tend die fast. The hunter is the exception. It's coming from a much superior range, a few basic healing abilties and a defensive stance in case she get cornered in close combat. So manage her constitution along a mission is very easy

3. Human Healer, the Steam mini guide about classes highlight that he is weaker than the Priest class and it makes a significant difference, and that unlike the dwarf he has no attack spell and no spell to apply debuf to enmies. Im' ok with that but, Guardian is a superior spell doubling block and parry, he has much better healing abilities, and he has a spell buff ensuring no damage is higher than 20% of character HP and that's more useful than it seems. Moreover he isn't that much weak when attacked and tend attract less agro. So avoid him die is relaticely easy and manage his constitution along a mission is rather easy.

4. Dwarf Priest, despite he has much less healing abilities, he can be a great healer based on buff and debuff that has character healed. He has a touch heal spell and a regen heal spell that can be very efficient. And an ok party heal. On top of that he has also some spells to knockdown oponent. But he need be much closer to combats than the Healr because of ranges and how touch spell is important. He has also a better energy regen and can be a mage attack with optionaly some healing abilties. From managing constitution along a mission it's in same range than the Healer.

5. Human Ninja, that the only close range class that hasn't the constitution bonus of Champion and Warrior and that has a good survivability. But he should use some Katana skills for that. in fact have both Kama and Katana skills is fine opening more options and Kama will allow more damages but Kama alone won't ensure the good survivability. The management of her constituion is ok but he will die a bit more often than the 4 others above.

6. Human Warrior, the first problem is how much he cost, the second problem is manage his constituion along a mission is quite a pain. Otherwise it has the survivability of the first 4, that is a bit better than Ninja.

7. Human Amazon, need play her more, but overall in theory the dual ability of long range and close range, plus the extra mobility should ensure a manageable constitution and survivability. In practice despite her damages are lower, in general she tends attrract too much agro for her own good. Moreover the long range/close range ability won't work well to ensure survivability nor to manage constitution because enemies tend go to her too often.

8. Elf Assassin, for sure the highest damages, but close range and too weak. Without two other characters with a taunt and protecting her rather often, it's not a character that survive long. And ensure her protection is too much constraint.

Dwarf Slayer, Elven Witch, not played yet.

[Dorok]

I have now play the Elven Witch during multiple combats level 3&4, and for now my feeling is it's one of the most powerful class of the game, no from direct damages, but for managing enemies and indirect damages. But because of enemies evolution along the progression, and because of some skills, it's much more obvious only since missions level 4.

I don't have tried all skills, but here some key skills:
- Rigor Mortis: Enemy can't avoid any attack and can't score any critical. It's a significant indirect increase of damages, and tactical tool like to ensure an effect will be applied. And the disabling of critical is definitely a second good option.
- Burden, it's a sort of Cripple but AoE, amazing. Moreover there's no enemy immune to magic unlike for Cripple. The Witch has a lower range than Hunter so it's more tricky to use but still there's many possibilities and it's very powerful.
- Remove Enchantment: It remove 1, 2 perhaps more, enchantment. It's not working against states like from shouts or non magic cast. It's only for effects applied by magic enemies on allies. But since level 4 missions there's many that are very troublesome, so it's very powerful.
- Power Defense provides 75% parry which is great when she got cornered. The tricky aspect is each working parry consume 2 energy but it's a great option anyway yo increase survivability.

For now all skills I tried are quite good, probably not as much than the 4 listed above but still. I tried also Empathy, Energy Drain, Failure, and Curse Armor. About this last it's a typical example of spell not useful at level because Armor can't be reduced bellow 50 and most enemies level 3 won't have as much or just a bit higher, there's a few but rare exceptions. At reverse since missions level 4 there's many opportunities and it brings a net income of indirect damages.

I'd say that up to level 3 the Witch is, for me, more or less on par with Hunter. But since level 4 missions it's more: 1. Champion, 2. Witch, 3. Hunter.

I also tried quickly Dwarf Slayer, I was hoping he had some bonus for constitution restore as he gets more damages, that is from himself too. But nope it doesn't even seem at Champion level. I need dig it more but for now I don't see how the Slayer can be useful. It's more the typical hero that won't survive many missions.

[Dwarfurious]

Witch was OP from the beginning, pity to see wasnt really ever fixed :( hunter too, just for fire arrow alone. So far slayer feels incomplete. He sadly lacks any giant/large monster slaying abilities which is what his namesake implies he would be good at.
Also since his abilities hurt him, his constitution drops during adventures faster than anyone, no matter what you do even if he gets every killing blow he can go negative!

[Dorok]

Since last post I played quite more the Slayer but still not enough, got one too late in my campaign. My opinion is evolving.

There's no problem against large enemies he has only one skill restricted to small targets. 360 combo, heavy smash, scissors bow allow move to a large enemy, and hit 7 times this turn and next turn. With damages bonus as HP lowdown. Its definitely huge and very flexible unlike for example the Ninja.

At low level Slayer is a bit hard to play, but less since level 3 and even less after.

I already answered more in detail in the other thread, all the point for the Slayer is manage his constitution, not use a skill when it's clearly possible but keep his skills for what is important, and exploit more the damages bonus than the skills otherwise.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Dwarfurious:

Witch was OP from the beginning, pity to see wasnt really ever fixed :( hunter too, just for fire arrow alone. So far slayer feels incomplete. He sadly lacks any giant/large monster slaying abilities which is what his namesake implies he would be good at.
Also since his abilities hurt him, his constitution drops during adventures faster than anyone, no matter what you do even if he gets every killing blow he can go negative!

So nothing compare to Witch and Hunter? Isn't this a bit exaggerated?

I can play a party without each and if it's different play, I never felt those parties weaker. Without both it's different, but i don't know there's so many builds variations I didn't tried. For example with a party of 5, Healer, Priest, Champion and 2 Warriors would be very different play but much stronger on some aspects than a party with a Witch or a Hunter.

My current quick feeling is best classes late levels (at least 4) are: Witch and Hunter ok, but also Champion and Warrior, and Priest and Healer. Then I consider Amazon is the most playable of other classes, when Slayer, Assassin and Ninja are classes difficult to play but that also make them interesting. But I can't say I'm sure I exploit them well. Moreover for no classes I tried plenty builds variations.

[Dwarfurious]

Since i started my last playthrough its been all dwarfs. But back in early access when the witch was added she was extremely op, and since coming back i dont think anything has changed. Can easily shut down small or large at range, self sustain her energy, and even shut down multiple enemies/casters in a single turn. Part of this is because you can still cast even when engaged in melee so you cant just send a ninja after the casters to stop them (casting should cause attack of oppurtunity or something)
Didnt like the amazon. Seems unfinished, not enough skills, most battles seem to be over before i can get off a fire spear, and her passive is strange and sometimes useless

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Dwarfurious:

Since i started my last playthrough its been all dwarfs.

Ok that's why you are high against the constitution management problem with the Slayer.

Since missions level 4 the Warrior starts take the lead in comparison of Champion. It's a long road for the Warrior but once you compare fully equipped and complete build, the Champion is overall better.

Warrior / Champion both level 6:
- Armor: 120 armor (with Watch Out!) / 87 (1H) & 80 (2H)
- Block: 35% / 29% (1H) & 20% (2H) & 39% (1H & Def. Stance)
- Parry: 20% / 0%
- Evade: 15% / 0%
- Dodge: 10% / 0%
- Damages: 92-107 / 81-87 (1H) & 90-96 (2H)

Those stats are enough to make the Warrior a more solid front, particularly since missions level 5 because a Champion block less and then Defensive Stance is less powerful.

The Warrior is a better party support with shouts, +20 Armor, +33% speed and no AOO, double Adrenalin income. Sure Champion Don't Trip is great but still overall a Warrior can be a better party support.

The huge morale boost for Champion is undoubtedly a serious adventage to manage constitution, I suspect the Warrior 50% decrease on constitution damages from physical attack doesn't work well, eventually all skills aren't physical attacks and then it's a pointless plus.

Now Warrior and Champion complete perfectly each other, and in my opinion nothing match Warrior+Champion for a duo front.

Also at lower levels the Champion largely dominates the Warrior I can agree on that.

Originally posted by Dwarfurious:

But back in early access when the witch was added she was extremely op, and since coming back i dont think anything has changed. Can easily shut down small or large at range, self sustain her energy, and even shut down multiple enemies/casters in a single turn.

Since missions level 5 she gets countered a lot by enemies support, then she is more tricky to use and less powerful.

She is a great tactical tool, in exchange she can't do much direct damages. I agree she is a top but use instead a front, a healer, or a damage dealer has definitely positive in comparison.

Originally posted by Dwarfurious:

Part of this is because you can still cast even when engaged in melee so you cant just send a ninja after the casters to stop them (casting should cause attack of oppurtunity or something)

What? That's your explanation for the Witch? That's a pvp explanation, it makes no sense. All magic users work like that and it's better, it would be too easy to disable entirely magic users, I mean enemies. Change that would be no effect for me when I play a Witch.

Originally posted by Dwarfurious:

Didnt like the amazon. Seems unfinished, not enough skills, most battles seem to be over before i can get off a fire spear, and her passive is strange and sometimes useless

Fire spear? Did you tried make her a Hunter? For sure she won't fit a hunter role.

She is a much more flexible damages dealer. She can act 3 times in a turn, that's only every 3 turns but in practice it's long range attacks without moving and without using the ability. So when you charge close range for huge damages you move and chain with 2 attacks, typically Turn the tides and Finishing blow for 8 attacks. None match that, even the Ninja who requires be more exposed, and requires more preparation so it's less flexible.

Now I always played Amazon with a Warrior which gives her double Adrenalin income, it's pretty fast to fill any skills, and multi hit skills not only spend Adrenalin but also generate per hit.

In my opinion she is quite finished you just don't play her well.

Now if she is great on many aspects, for me she is missing a skill removing enchant like Assassin and Slayer. But they aren't truly her direct concurrent, only the Ninja is.

All of that are just opinions, my point of view, transform that in math and numbers evidences is not a work I want attempt.

[Dorok]

Was wondering which class to pick very soon in the campaign. I have already 2 Healers, 1 Warrior, 1 Elven Archer. And I can add, Assassin, Witch, Amazon, when that soon in the campaign I would prefer a solid close range, Warrior, Champion or Slayer.

Witch is an obvious choice but in context of party size of 3, I don't feel so much comfortable in taking one that soon. The problem is there could be weeks in campaign before I see another at Tavern.

[Kaerius]

Honestly I think some classes are traps because they're worse than their competition in the long run, see champion and priest, or appear deadly early, only to reveal their flaws later, like assassin(too much of an energy hog to be effective, along with hefty cooldowns, also the disenchanting is often ineffective at higher levels).

Amazon is an amazing class, great opener and finisher, and best condition removing skill in the game, she's perfectly paired with healer, shoring up its weak condition removal and defensively buffed, alleviating her aggro problem.

Slayer seems to have a massive condition problem, I'm not sure how well it would work with healer elite buffs though.

Warrior, while the superior tank and party support, does have one downside vs champion that needs to be mentioned: he gets knocked down a lot.

I'm thinking the best party composition has healer, warrior, amazon, and then the last two is any combination of hunter, champion, witch, ninja, priest, second amazon.

Oh and mage is a solid early/midgame burst dps/disabler, not sure how it fares later, semi-reliant on knockdown. Mighf fit in flex slot too.

For ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles I might try an alpha strike team sometime: priest, amazon, hunter, mage, mage.

[Dorok]

The Slayer bug was fixed, it is in category of damages dealers with Amazon, Ninja, and Assassin. It is the most solid of the four, but you need manage his health.

Slayer and Assassin have a big plus in comparison of the two others, an attack to remove enchantment. A quite powerful setup is not use any Witch and use Slayer and Assassin, or probably 2 slayers too.

Slayer and Priest have the capacity to be second front, it's even more obvious with the Priest.

The Champion is totally unique in condition management along a mission, have one is a guaranty to avoid troubles for the party if there isn't a disaster.

For me no classes are traps among, Champion, Priest, Slayer, Warrior, Healer, Amazon, Hunter, Witch, Assassin.

For sure at first Champion and Priest could look stronger than Warrior and Healer, but later it's not making Champion and Priest weaker or bad in their role.

There's two classes I used not enough, Ninja and Mage:
- Ninja at first I found it quite interesting but then lost the only one I had, and never got again the same feeling, nor never tried much use one.
- Mage, used a few, but always lost them right when I started feeling them quite powerful.

I played quite a lot after OP post, and I don't have the same conclusions now, at least not overall.

[Kaerius]

Honestly I'm leaning towards bringing the ultra-solid defense lineup this run. Healer, warrior, champion, amazon, witch. Good offense too, but not much of an alpha strike. Lots of synergy.

Speaking of synergy, I think some classes absolutely need certain other classes to get the most out of them. Assassin needs Priest(inspiration), Ninja needs Warrior(retreat), Amazon needs defensive buffs(Healer), etc.

[Dorok]

There's multiple ways to play a same class, then there's multiple ways to setup synergy.

For example Amazon needs some time to grow in power, the warrior with his cry increasing "rage" grow does help a lot the Amazon and change her quite significantly.

Bleed is another example of synergy possibility that can change a lot a party.

There's perhaps some synergy that works overall better but as it's a party perspective I don't think some pair are weak.

The only exception for me would be the pair Warrior/Champion because two fronts mark a party, and they complete very well as a front. That said there's different ways to build each so it also depends of their respective build.

[Kaerius]

Originally posted by Dorok:

There's multiple ways to play a same class, then there's multiple ways to setup synergy.

For example Amazon needs some time to grow in power, the warrior with his cry increasing "rage" grow does help a lot the Amazon and change her quite significantly.

Bleed is another example of synergy possibility that can change a lot a party.

There's perhaps some synergy that works overall better but as it's a party perspective I don't think some pair are weak.

The only exception for me would be the pair Warrior/Champion because two fronts mark a party, and they complete very well as a front. That said there's different ways to build each so it also depends of their respective build.

Warrior's "For Great Justice!" is a great boost for Amazon indeed. It's a treat having her run into enemy back line with full adrenaline and comboing finisher into merciless blow.

I do think some pairings are very important to make certain classes flow properly. I'm especially talking about Assassin needing help with energy generation(Priest or Amazon). As an aside to that, Ninja needs party members that generate conditions on enemies for its most damaging skills,, and hexes don't count, so there's an anti-synergy with Witch and Mage.

Bleed is annoying because so many enemies are immune. That said I've had some massive damage from it(recently killed a warchief in one turn with Ninja's kama bleed skill, followed by Warrior's deep gash and finishing blow(had full adrenaline thanks to for great justice).

[Dorok]

Assassin has multiple energy regen attack and doesn't need support for that. She needs support to get an enchantment on her, and bleeding support can help.

For sure bleed can't be applied to many enemies but it's also the only effect that stacks and it open many special bonus to many attacks.

[Kaerius]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Assassin has multiple energy regen attack and doesn't need support for that. She needs support to get an enchantment on her, and bleeding support can help.

For sure bleed can't be applied to many enemies but it's also the only effect that stacks and it open many special bonus to many attacks.

Even with the energy regen attacks I was having trouble, and sometimes I'd want to use a different attack because of the situation.

Doesn't poison stack too? Only matters with the Hunter, but eh. I know there's several bonuses for bleed, current team has two

Oh and that Warrior, Champion, Amazon, Witch, Healer team composition is amazing, on both offense and defense. It might be the most solid team you can build. The healer rarely needs to cast any healing spells, just does some buffing, occasional condition removal, and spams ranged attacks. Meanwhile the adrenaline supercharging from the Warrior makes the three martials output massive damage, especially the Amazon. The Witch is amazing support as well.

[Dorok]

Other stacks are time stack not effect stack, but he it's possible poison works the same but it is more rare.

I never had troubles with Assassin and Energy, but eventually it would have been better with some energy regen boost. The choice of skills could be a factor, manage the combo is the difficulty, but it's all the point.

Warrior, Champion, Witch, Healer is certainly the most classic team base. But Hunter as the fifth is probably more classic than with Amazon. Myself I ended found more powerful 2 damages dealer than using the Witch despite she could be the most powerful.

A point of the game is burst of damages to achieve kill one opponent, that's why two damages dealer is quite powerful. But for enemy enchantment management, such choice works better with Slayer and Assassin, except that two Assassin would be hard to manage.

I used quite a lot Amazon and she is quite versatile this making her probably easier to play. But I don't find her more powerful than Slayer and Assassin, and Hunter is rather special.