(EP 2 SPOILERS) Is it really worth to read Umineko?

[Gonaks]

[SPOILERS FROM EP 1 AND EP 2 AHEAD]

Hey guys.

I just finished reading EP 2 and I think I'm not getting what the whole point is. Well, how the hell Battler is still denying witches? Even if he has just met Beatrice, we readers already know about Bernkastel and Lambdadelta existence's, so why is there be placing a mystery about if they exists or not?

I already read Higurashi, and God!, I have been really grabbed by the plot since from the beginning, but with Umineko I really can't find a reason to continue reading it, and Beatrice is getting on my nerves lol. I think I'm not seeing a mystery that can motivates me to continue, but I would like to read it from you guys.

Is Umineko really worth it? Is there anything that you could tell me to keep me in Rokkenjima? Although I don't like spoilers, I would even get some minor spoiler that could instigate me, but try to avoid that if it'd be possible.

[DeRockProject (jongyon7192p)]

I mean, are you sure that's proof enough that witches exist?

[Ellixer]

It depends. Do you sympathize with the characters or not? If no, then I don't think you'll find much going forward. Episode 3 picks up for a lot of people because at the time readers were left too confused and lost after Episode 2 (the author toned it down and made it easier), so there is merit in seeing through Episode 3 at least.

For me personally, I found Umineko much more immediately intriguing. The cast and the tone click with me more, but like I said, the narrative might lose you completely if you're not invested in the characters, and I feel that's entirely subjective.

As for the witches' existence, certain things you are just going to have to roll with as "symbolic" or "meta narrative", which doesn't count on the chessboard, which is the events that happened on Rokkenjima during the Episode. The question here is "can the events on Rokkenjima be explained through a mystery, anti-fantasy narrative". If you keep going, Episode 3 will give you more clues to even the playing field, giving Battler a weapon to fight with in reframing earlier scenes. If you want the clue now rather than seeing it in the story, it's this: the events shown are told through Beatrice's perspective, and any scene where Battler isn't present is subject to unreliable narrator (except, of course, Battler's scene at the end of Episode 2, which only appears fantasy after he has already given up thinking). The conversation between Battler and Beatrice should not be taken as literal at this point if you're not ready for it. See every scene in the meta world as the reader arguing with the writer.

[Sergent H]

Originally posted by Ellixer:

As for the witches' existence, certain things you are just going to have to roll with as "symbolic" or "meta narrative", which doesn't count on the chessboard, which is the events that happened on Rokkenjima during the Episode. The question here is "can the events on Rokkenjima be explained through a mystery, anti-fantasy narrative". If you keep going, Episode 3 will give you more clues to even the playing field, giving Battler a weapon to fight with in reframing earlier scenes. If you want the clue now rather than seeing it in the story, it's this: the events shown are told through Beatrice's perspective, and any scene where Battler isn't present is subject to unreliable narrator (except, of course, Battler's scene at the end of Episode 2, which only appears fantasy after he has already given up thinking). The conversation between Battler and Beatrice should not be taken as literal at this point if you're not ready for it. See every scene in the meta world as the reader arguing with the writer.

This.

Focus on how to solve each murder on Rokkenjima.

[Battler Ushiromiya]

It is worth it to read. Do not look at it in a narrow minded perspective. This is a mystery through and through. Continue reading. Ep 3 goes into the sort of mechanics and way of thinking you should have. Don't worry about the Meta World and how that works, it doesn't matter. All that matters is whether or not the murders are done with magic.

[Gonaks]

Thank you for the answers guys. I will keep reading (I didn't read your spoiler text because this, Ellixier)

So, just to know if I got it right, I should ignore every "undeniable" magic thing (even those goat-head servants and Kanon's magical blade) and focus to try resolve the murders without using any magical explanation, right?

[Gonaks]

Originally posted by DeRockProject (jongyon7192p):

I mean, are you sure that's proof enough that witches exist?

Well, if I can't believe even in what I'm seeing, I'm really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up lol

[Ellixer]

I think the key here is to have faith, faith that there is an answer somewhere, otherwise the writer is just wasting your time (and wasting a lot of time at that, because ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Umineko is long). This is a theme that will be explored later, but I think your frustration is meant to be reflected in Battler's own surrender near the end of Episode 2. It seems impossible, and I think even he realizes how absurd it is, but a game that cannot be won isn't really much of a game is it. At this point, Battler is basically playing chess without knowing the rules, and so are most of the readers. Episode 3 and Episode 4, while not providing definite answers, will in fact give you more information as for what the shape of the mind game is.

[Gonaks]

Originally posted by Ellixer:

I think the key here is to have faith, faith that there is an answer somewhere, otherwise the writer is just wasting your time (and wasting a lot of time at that, because ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Umineko is long). This is a theme that will be explored later, but I think your frustration is meant to be reflected in Battler's own surrender near the end of Episode 2. It seems impossible, and I think even he realizes how absurd it is, but a game that cannot be won isn't really much of a game is it. At this point, Battler is basically playing chess without knowing the rules, and so are most of the readers. Episode 3 and Episode 4, while not providing definite answers, will in fact give you more information as for what the shape of the mind game is.

That was a great answer. I think that my fear was exactly that, that my time was being wasted. So, I will have faith. A miracle could not be reached without faith.

[DeRockProject (jongyon7192p)]

Yeah, I didn't know how much I should be allowed to say, but others have said it so I think it's fine. The witch's tea party is not the mystery itself, but simply a meta-discussion of the mystery. I think. It's something like that. Then all you need to do is refute the witches in the murders themselves.

[Gonaks]

Thank you too DeRockProject, this also clarifies more the situation.

[Ellixer]

The fear of having your investment and time be wasted is a very understandable one I think, and it is a fear that the story touches on in a very interesting way later. Why would you commit the brain power to think about the who, how and why of a mystery when you do not have the guarantee that the answer isn't "the culprit is someone you never met" or "the murder was done with magic"? Beatrice may look like a deconstruction of the mystery genre (mocking the idea that you can always reach the answer because of an unspoken guarantee that the writer will play fair and give you the tools required to solve the problem, which is in itself a fantastical notion that no real life detective would ever be able to benefit from), but Umineko I believe was written by someone who deeply loves murder mysteries and I feel that becomes clearer as time goes on. I cannot give you that guarantee (without spoiling) and neither can Beatrice, which is why I say the story implicitly demands faith from a reader who look at a problem that "claims" to be unsolvable and have a crack at it anyway. If you struggle, see the tools given to Battler in Episode 3, and try to see if you can reconstruct prior events and make sense of them then. Umineko is much more rewarding to active readers than passive ones I think, even if active readers may sometimes feel like a fool for putting blind faith into something that tries to tell them that their efforts are useless.

Consider a line said first in Episode 2, which will be repeated again and again as the story continues. That very same line applies just as much to the mystery genre as it does to the situation the characters face.

[Gonaks]

Yeah, I got it. I'm already reading EP3. Thanks again for both answers, they were really great.

Just to make sure, about which line are you talking about?

[Ellixer]

Without love it cannot be seen.

[Spacesuit Spiff]

Just gonna add that Higurashi did this too, though more subtly. The fact that you can come up with coherent magical and non-magical explanations is a really interesting conceit of this franchise. Higurashi has some wild fan theories (check the tvtropes), and the nature of the series means that they're inherently more plausible than they would be otherwise.

[kurapan]

I read Umineko about 10 years ago and all I have to say is that Umineko is one of the most interesting and stories I've read.